BRO, JD Posted November 16, 2002 Share Posted November 16, 2002 First off, SC is a great game, but it can really drag on in the late stages once the game is already decided. This is especially true if you're playing as the Axis. What is the point of having to attack the USA? First off, it's very unrealistic and ahistorical. Had the USSR and UK fallen, the US and Germany would not have been able to continue an all-out war between the two. Neither would have had the abilities to project any sizable force across the Atlantic without some friendly nation as a base. Germany especially would not have been able to mass any type of force for many years to invade the USA across the Atlantic--even if she had all of the production of Europe behind her. Secondly, it's just plain dull and uninteresting in the game. The game is over once it's the Axis v. the USA. But still you have to spend quite a while building up a force, some CVs, and getting them across the Atlantic. Has this ever been addressed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I/O Error Posted November 16, 2002 Share Posted November 16, 2002 The basic answer is that SC functions on a "zero sum" basis: There can be only one absolute winner, not one major and a few other guys who just managed to survive. Sadly there's no way to declare ourselves the victory and go home. There isn't (that I'm aware of, speaking as an amateur) any way for the game's engine to declare the game finished and won like that. One thing to consider is that for many people, it's a challenge worth playing through. Ahistorical it may be, but it would be rather annoying if the game ended as soon as Moscow feel and a Sealion was finally launched. The Allied player would probably scream, "Okay, what the HELL just happened?! I have a fleet all ready to go, c'mon!" [ November 16, 2002, 11:52 AM: Message edited by: I/O Error ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayJay_H Posted November 17, 2002 Share Posted November 17, 2002 Originally posted by I/O Error: The basic answer is that SC functions on a "zero sum" basis: There can be only one absolute winner, not one major and a few other guys who just managed to survive. Sadly there's no way to declare ourselves the victory and go home. After the fall of USSR and UK wouldnt it be more realistic if a popup message appears saying US and German gouvernment agree to make an armistice or discuss peace terms? Could depend on which side wins the battle of the atlantic. I just would like to have some more diplomatic options of any kind in the game mainly related to US-German conflict when Northamerica lost his most important allied, the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl G. E. von Mannerheim Posted November 17, 2002 Share Posted November 17, 2002 Here aer, in my opinion, the best victory options/ conditions for germany: 1) Defeats UK (If only Uk has fallen and Germany is not at war with russia than Germany must also conqer the US) 2) Defeat of UK and USSR (TheN America sues for peace. 3) UK surrenders if they lose 40 mpps to subs on 6 consecutive turns 4) Germany holds at least Poland by the end of 1946 Thoughts? CvM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted November 17, 2002 Share Posted November 17, 2002 -- CvM Fine ideas -- I'm opposed to #1 as I feel Germany conquering either the US or Canada would have been historically impossible, so I'm against that victory condition. I like the other conditions, especially the one concerning U-Boats. Atlantic trade was essential to Britain's survival and it should be reflected in the victory conditions. Your idea here is excellent. [ November 16, 2002, 08:15 PM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Gordon Posted November 17, 2002 Share Posted November 17, 2002 Hmmm...I usually invade the USA because...it's FUN! Yes, FUN! Is it dweeby - yes! But when playing Axis, it satisfies the megalomaniac in me to see my grand Axis fleet (built at the rate of one battleship a month!) cross the Atlantic and pound the USA and Canada into submission. I think this portion of the game outlines quite prominently some of the shortcomings of the SC game system (which will hopefully be addressed and corrected in SC2)...but I have to admit, it's still FUN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted November 17, 2002 Share Posted November 17, 2002 Taking the U.S. and Canada is definitely a lot of fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windstarz Posted November 17, 2002 Share Posted November 17, 2002 You could agree before the game starts to the victory conditions. In my mind if the Axis take England and Russia out then they have won. The only way it would make sense to go on is if you had a world map and an unlimited time to continue the fight. Anyway, America will eventually fall in the game the way it is altho it might be time consuming. I think America being able to sue for peace is the best option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted November 17, 2002 Share Posted November 17, 2002 Agreed 100% There's an earlier forum a few pages back called "North America" where this idea was gone into with a lot of interesting detail -- dgaad made numerous entries about Hitler's plans for a (post war) Blue Water Navy and views were exchanged about hypothetical situations in the late 40s -- the US having the Atom Bomb but Germany having Jet and Rocket technology. [ November 17, 2002, 11:19 AM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Gordon Posted November 17, 2002 Share Posted November 17, 2002 One possible solution to a possibly a-historical invasion of North America would be to just not have it on the map (which is what COS did, I believe). However, this might mess up other things in the gameplay. Basically, one would have to either leave N. America completely off the map or put N. America in its ENTIRETY on the map. In the first case, you can't invade what isn't there so problem solved. In the second case, you can certainly TRY to invade N. America but the country is almost as big as the USSR, the capitol will relocate if you take it (there is a historical precedence for this, afterall during the Revolutionary War) and meanwhile, your supply lines are getting more and more strained. Plus, with partisans popping up left and right, good luck - just be prepared to pump a ton of resources into the invasion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted November 17, 2002 Share Posted November 17, 2002 Agreed -- what I don't like about not having it on the map is in COS the US needed a link, I think it was Liverpool. If England is knocked out and America still in, I'd like it to invade somewhere -- possibly Algeria or Morroco's Atlantic coast. The prospect of success would be grim, of course, but possibly in combination with the USSR it might mean something. The flip side, haveing America more active and on the map leads to our current situation. In an earlier forum a lot was said about numerous continent screens or a global approach, but it went nowhere. Invading the U. S. from either coast would be much harder than invading Russia from Poland and the Balkans. I'd like to see some or all of that and I'm sure everyone else who posts shares this opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murks Posted November 19, 2002 Share Posted November 19, 2002 The US is almost as big as the USSR? That's news to me. I think the USSR was 3-4 times the size of the US. Or did you mean to say: almost as big as the portion of the USSR that is shown on the map? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demoss Posted November 19, 2002 Share Posted November 19, 2002 (built at the rate of one battleship a month!) Battleships are a waste. Build carriers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Gordon Posted November 19, 2002 Share Posted November 19, 2002 Originally posted by murks: The US is almost as big as the USSR? That's news to me. I think the USSR was 3-4 times the size of the US. Or did you mean to say: almost as big as the portion of the USSR that is shown on the map?Yeah, you got me there. Well, it's NOT as big as the USSR. But it's still darn big. Plus, you have think about maintaining supply lines across the Atlantic. NOT an easy thing to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TC27 Posted November 20, 2002 Share Posted November 20, 2002 Err I just won a game as the Axis without conquering the USA, I had a hell of a time beating the USSR (they moved their capital twice!) but once it had surrended within a couple of turns I got a Axis victory message and stats screen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Gordon Posted November 20, 2002 Share Posted November 20, 2002 Originally posted by TC27: Err I just won a game as the Axis without conquering the USA, I had a hell of a time beating the USSR (they moved their capital twice!) but once it had surrended within a couple of turns I got a Axis victory message and stats screen.The Yankees MUST be brought under the jackbooted heel of the glorious Axis Alliance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted November 20, 2002 Share Posted November 20, 2002 [should be a photo of Hitler and Goerring at a table.] "I tell you, Hermann, I like this FlashGordon fellow -- he's nutsy!" [ November 20, 2002, 04:34 PM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TC27 Posted November 20, 2002 Share Posted November 20, 2002 Well I simply blockaded the US with the Italian and later the German fleet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl G. E. von Mannerheim Posted November 21, 2002 Share Posted November 21, 2002 I still think that if the UK and USSR is gone, than the US should be gone too. There was no way in hell the US would fight a Germany with the control of all of Europe. CvM [ November 20, 2002, 05:25 PM: Message edited by: Carl Von Mannerheim ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Gordon Posted November 21, 2002 Share Posted November 21, 2002 Originally posted by Carl Von Mannerheim: I still think that if the UK and USSR is gone, than the US should be gone too. There was no way in hell the US would fight a Germany with the control of all of Europe. CvMWhy take chance?!?! BRING the Yankee dogs to HEEL, at the point of the bayonet if need be!!!! [ November 20, 2002, 11:41 PM: Message edited by: Flash Gordon ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Gordon Posted November 21, 2002 Share Posted November 21, 2002 DUPLICATE POST [ November 20, 2002, 11:41 PM: Message edited by: Flash Gordon ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Gordon Posted November 21, 2002 Share Posted November 21, 2002 DUPLICATE POST Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted November 21, 2002 Share Posted November 21, 2002 "Gentlemen, on behalf of the Reich I say we should not worry about details -- FlashGordon has come up with a plan for the conquest of North America." *** *** *** *** "Good -- good, Flash Gordon says we should build it from Norway to Iceland and from Iceland to Greenland and from Greenland to Nova Scotia and from there we need only conquer the rest of North America -- it's easy." [ November 21, 2002, 11:15 AM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts