AAR Terif/Curry testing new bid system.

[Curry]

Trying out a new bid system. I have several games going with it and in this one Terif has agreed to test it out with me.

The new bid is on a .5/20/20 system

.5 for the UK

20 for the US

20 for the USSR

So on a bid of 100 the UK gets 50, the US and USSR would each get 2000.

It gives the USA a bigger role, but that is not the goal. The goal in my thinking is that is gives the Allies a real opportunity at a D Day. It also helps the USSR in that the Axis cannot keep all of his forces in the USSR knowing that when the USA comes into the war he will really have to watch and guard the western front. Perhaps really trying to make a "western wall".

Its been a long time since I have played Terif, he has mauled me each time we played before. But hopfully that was a long time ago and I'm hoping that this will be a long game.

In this game Terif as Axis for a bid of 200

So the UK get 100 and the US and USSR get 4000

[ August 10, 2004, 12:02 PM: Message edited by: Curry ]

[Curry]

Turns 1/2 – Denmark attacked, Poland attacked, France sets defense, Allies begin the search for subs. Same old same old stuff.

Turns 3/4 - Denmark knocked down to 4, Poland is still alive, Warsaw should be taken next turn. LC attacked and taken. The Allies form a line of corps on the French/LC boarder with another line of armies behind. One sub is found and knocked down to 5, but it dives twice keeping it alive.

Turns 5/6 - Denmark finished off by cruisers and air and surrenders. In Poland Warsaw falls but the stubborn Poles will not surrender - yet. In the Atlantic no great diving for the subs this time and both are put at the bottle of the Atlantic, the Brit’s come home with a Cruiser and BB both damaged. In the West the line holds as the Germans attack a British corps and a French Corps. But since most of the air was used against the Danes both are only damaged and then reinforced.

Turns 7/8 The Pole’s surrender and go over to the Dark side. The Allied line along the French/LC boarder is attacked. One French corps goes down quickly as the armor unit attacking it gets a max attack of 5 against it. Only one Luftwaffe had to be used. The other two Luftwaffe then attack two British corps waiting to unload on the French coast. A German corps fills the hole in the line, the blood hex. The allies do not attack the German corps. Instead they just hang in there. Its clear the allies defense is the corps defense. I thought about doing the French HQ defense but thought I would just try this one instead since I am playing Terif.

Turns 9/10 Axis attack the French Arden and take it. They attack the French corps in the Arden and it fights valiantly as it takes lots of air and land units to kill it off. Then a German unit fills in and occupies the French Arden. The Allies do not counter attack, instead they remain entrenched. I am not a fan of this defense but I think against Terif it is the best defense to use. I rather like to build a HQ for the French and counter attack. The trouble with this Defense is if you counter attack and even kill another unit Terif is so good that he will replace the units on the front lines with new units and kill off the units you used to counter attack much quicker. Using a French HQ you can do some damage but a great player like Terif can also blow through your line quicker, at least that is my view of things. So I will try this method of making him take his time to work his way to Paris. So far its been one hex for each move.

[Terif]

We use a bid of 200, i.e 100 mpps for UK, 4000 USA and another 4000 for Russia.

Standard opening without a breakthrough in Poland, but a turn more or less is not important there, as long as Germany leaves enough units to kill all poles until turn 5 if necessary. They surrendered in axis turn 4.

At the moment (March 1940) Germany is slowly advancing through the french corps defence towards Paris and 2 hexes away from it. The outskirts should be reached within 1-2 turns.

The corps defence is in deed the safer choice - especially since Allies have a lot of mpps in the long run. With an aggressive defence Allies have the chance to kill some german units, but they also risk loosing France very fast since they can not fill all gaps and it is much easier to kill unentrenched and damaged allied units in the counterattack.

[Curry]

Turns 11/12 Most likely I made a mistake and should have stay with my plans, but sometimes you have to change plans. I threw out my plans and counter attacked. First the Axis hit another hex to move closer to Paris. He killed off a British corps defending it, then hit a weakened Canadian corps behind that and with a mighty strike from the Luftwaffe destroyed that as well. Two units killed and one hex taken. The unit the Axis sent in to the hex that attacked the Canadian was an armor unit. It was at a strength of 9 after it attacked the Canadian corps. I changed my plan and attacked. I had built a French armor and placed it in Paris entrenching. I used it to make my opening attack and the full strength level 1 tank unit knocked the Panzer from 9 to 5. Then I finished him off with French armies all around him. Killing the Panzer and retaking the hex. Now I fear revenge will be terrible but I think I did the right thing.

[Kuniworth]

I'm not sure this system will alter game-balance. Problem is still how do get allies to gear up in time to face the axis tech-onslaught. I'd rather see Russia with 6000 MMP.

[Terif]

After attacking the german tank, Allies had not enough units left to protect Paris and left one spot open near it - but could be also a trap since a transport is standing outside the coast and Courageous carrier arrived in London. But doesn´t mattter even if Germany will probably loose a tank and corps next turn in the french counter:

German forces destroy 2 allied units and take 3 hexes including the one in the vicinity of Paris - italian readiness is increasing. Only an unentrenched canadian army is now guarding Paris.

Courageous carrier has been forced to intercept. No damage for the german airfleet. Unknown damage at the carrier. But since I used the most experienced one to force the intercept, the maximum carrier losses can be up to 3-4 str. points. Carriers are at the start of the game very weak against enemy airfleets. When they have collected experience and have some tech, carriers become very valuable but this needs time - usually until 1942/43 when Allies start D-day.

[Curry]

Turn 13/14 - The counter attack has changed the dynamic of the defense of France. The Axis attacks and the Allies have to pay a heavy price. He kills off a French corps and a French army. He moves through my line and advances all the way to Paris. This is bad as it will now bring in Italy into the war and France shall collapse. That is the choice of counter attacking. If I would have held to my original plan I think I could have held longer but I also would not have taken any German units with me. In my turn I counter attack back and kill off that German Panzer that moved to Paris and a weakened corps that Terif placed behind it to keep the Panzer in supply. So we both lose two units, France loses an army and a corps, Germany loses a Panzer and a corps. The French also retake the hex but the line is very weak now and the Italians will be joining the war very shortly. My Carrier did intercept but did nothing. Most likely I should not even try it but at this point the Allies get desperate to try to hold a few more turns.

[Avatar]

Boy, I really want to play with that bid (allies of course). If anybody's up to it, let me know.

Curry, what ideas do you have for the US's extra 2k? I suggest 4 air, and at least 3 (or more) chits in jet tech. That'll even the odds in the skies over europe. That'd be 5 air for US, and 4-5 air for UK in 42-43. DDay awaits you.

BTW, Zapp, we need to finish our game!!! I couldn't catch you last time, again, g/f was making problems (when don't they?).

[Terif]

2 allied units destroyed and german forces stand again in the outskirts of Paris. The canadian army defending Paris is reduced to str. 4 but holding - Italy will join next turn. The UK carrier is still sitting in the port of London and gets another interception hit without losses for the german air... so german OKW estimates it will retreat next turn.

[jon_j_rambo]

Looks like another Terif domination. Avatar, dude, turn on your ICQ!

Is it just me, or do all the Euros hide behind their computers?

[Terif]

May 26, 1940:

French armies + tank retreat to evacuation ports, defenders around Paris reinforced. Italiy joined. Axis kill the defenders around Paris and has now 3 hexes occupied around Paris - France will surrender next turn.

[Terif]

June 16, 1940:

France surrenders after last suicide attacks of the remaining french forces to do some last damage. UK units operated to Brest and Bordeaux - only one has to stay, cut of north of Paris.

Malta is empty and will be occupied next turn.

[Terif]

Allies operate an AF to Malta - very expensive mistake...80mpps operating costs and it lost 6 str points vs 1 str for the german air in Sicily in the following battle until it operated back in safety.

Bordeaux, Malta and Brest occupied, Warspite Battleshipgroup bombards the corps in Brest and gets reduced to str 2 by some german airfleets in the counterattack.

July 21: Norway converted

August 11: Vichy conquered, Sweden under attack.

August 25: Sweden surrenders

[Curry]

playing very poorly and very foolishly

just lost a carrier to a dumb mistake

lost an army to another rookie mistake earilier

at this point you just want to quit and put your head in the sand.

[Terif]

In October 1940 Glorious and Valiant attack the empty city of Bergen - intercepted by german air. In the next turn the carrier got killed (Courageous intercepting, no damage for the german air...) and Valiant damaged by german air and naval attacks.

Egypt under siege - Suez will fall next turn, Alexandria 2-3 turns later.

November 1940: Romania and Hungary join Axis. Time for the spanish campaign .

[Curry]

things going very poorly mostly due to just some very poor play on my part.

Nothing for the allies to do but sit and wait

[ August 11, 2004, 09:20 AM: Message edited by: Curry ]

[Curry]

Spain gone and its still early. Even with a huge bid its a lost cause. Terif is just so good at the cookie cutter that the Axis is over powering.

Now I remember why I stopped playing Terif and said to myself I wouldnt play him again.

LOL

[Curry]

All for now. I need supernatural intervention or something now.

I have to go to the store and stock up on everything to get ready for a hurricane that is coming near me in Florida on Friday. I felt like I just had a hurricane hit me.

[Terif]

It is August 1941....Axis preparing to unleash a storm about Russia...

Spain surrendered 3 turns after the invasion started - they fought one turn without capital.

In May 1941 Yugoslavia couped and got converted immediately. Egypt fell a long time ago. This turn USA joined Allies. Russian readiness: 69%.

After our TCP session for the middle part we are now back at the PBEM path .

[Curry]

USA joined.

Recap

Battle of France went fair - could have been better could have been worse. I think I should have stuck to my original plan and did not counter attack. In counter attacking I did manage to kill both of his Panzer units but he took France quicker and I was not able to retreat many French units to the UK. I beleive France fell in May. Like I said, just fair.

The quiet period has gone very poorly for me. I grew impatience and made some poor mistakes that Terif, being the champ he is, jumped all over. I really hurt my chances in the quiet period. But that is all part of the game. You take chances and sometimes they dont work out, especially if you play the best.

We will try to continue the struggle. But I am afraid the attack on Russia will be a terrible thing.

[jon_j_rambo]

Yoda was feeling the force.

[Curry]

Terif, I apologize for the delay and this game may be delayed for some time.

I live near where that Hurricane Charlie is going to hit. Its worse than we hoped for. I live in South West Florida and it now looks like its coming right for us. It has been upgraded now to a catagory 4 which is really really not good. (only 5 categories on a 1 - 5 scale). We even made a safe room out of our bathroom if things get too nasty we can go sit in there. Its suppose to hit in 3 or 4 more hours. I expect we will be out of power for some time after the hurricane goes through. Last time we had a tropical storm we were out 2 days. Last time we had a major hurricane like this it too a week to get back power. Thus is life in South Florida.

[Blashy]

Play the games with no TECH, it will even out alot.

The TECH in SC is too overbalanced, we all know that. Games with no tech offer the allies a good chance at d-day, everything is on even ground.

[Liam]

Blasy

Tech is what makes the game. Just lately Jets have become less important for me. In my last 20 games I've not managed to make jets 'Once'! Even with 3-5 Chits over 2 3 years every single game.

[Blashy]

TECH is what breaks this game, I think everyone agrees on that.

SC match:

Axis, attack countries, plunder invest in jet tech / long range, rinse and repeat.

Allies, save money invest in jet tech / LR, rinse and repeat.

I love tech, I'm glad in SC2 more attention will be taken to balance it.

But SC's tech is all about air air and more air. If you are one level lower than your enemy, you're screwed, unless he has no clue what he is doing.