New Campaigns

[Carl G. E. von Mannerheim]

Im curious what some of your ideas for new campaigns made with the editor are. Some of mine are: OPeration Typhoon,the soviet counteroffensive of 1941, operation Uranus, Luftwaffe 1946, and of course, the winter war.

[Norse]

Originally posted by Carl Von Mannerheim:

[QB]Im curious what some of your ideas for new campaigns made with the editor are. [QB]

Patton's dream, Allies vs Sovjet in 1945, starting when the Axis have about 2 months left to live, that would be fun.

"The massive Sovjet forces are ready to roll across Germany and beyond, how can the allies bring their naval superiority to bear in this conflict? Will Patton ever see the Moscow gates? Will the axis remants fight till death or join either side in a crusade to regain former glory?"

UK came an inch from declaring war on Sovjet historically, now THAT would be interesting. Winter 1939: UK and France declares war on Sovjet, and Sovjet declares itself part of the Axis alliance to crush the western powers. USA starts on 90% readiness or so. Finland becomes a UK minor.

Don't think much of this stuff will be possible, but perhaps the editor can be tweaked by Hubert to make it so.

~Norse~

[Carl G. E. von Mannerheim]

Don't think much of this stuff will be possible, but perhaps the editor can be tweaked by Hubert to make it so.

Amen, any others?

[Camicie Nere]

October 1940:

Spanish Caudillo Francisco Franco meets with Hitler at Hendaye in the Pyrenees. After a long and exhaustive stretch of negotiations, Hitler agrees to Franco's extravagant demands of war materiel, economic aid, and territorial concessions from the former French Moroccan territories.

Spain declares war on Great Britain and prepares an assault on Gibraltar. Germany is perhaps forced to pursue the "Mediterranean strategy" that may have been in actuality her best chance of actually winning the war.

That sounds easy enough from what I hear of the editor, but I must admit my dream scenario is the foolish DoW contemplated by England and France upon the Soviets as a result of CVM's beloved Winter War. I am not sure if HC answered this question definitively, but I think the present plan for the editor will not allow us to have an "Axis" USSR.

[Camicie Nere]

But if it were, would an "Axis" USSR perhaps have led to an "Allied" Spain and Italy? Both countries DID send weapons and some volunteers to aid the Finns in early '40. Spain and Great Britain were by no means implacable enemies, and Hitler and Mussolini had some extremely tense moments in the mid-30's (particularly after Nazi thugs whacked Musso's protege Dollfus in Austria.)

Please, Hubert, PLEEEEEEZZZZZZZEEEEEEEEE. Let us tinker with the allegiances of major powers with the editor.

[Carl G. E. von Mannerheim]

perhaps a more well prepared soviet union, one untouched by stalin's purges...

[dasreich]

The first campaign I want to make is 1942 - when the invasion of Italy by Allied Forces occurred. Also, I think an Axis Russia and an Allied Italy would be interesting...if only we were allowed to do so.

[ July 14, 2002, 10:49 PM: Message edited by: dasreich ]

[Carl G. E. von Mannerheim]

or how bout operation crusader...

[Hubert Cater]

Please, Hubert, PLEEEEEEZZZZZZZEEEEEEEEE. Let us tinker with the allegiances of major powers with the editor.

Sorry, for now you're stuck with the historical allegiances

Hubert

[Camicie Nere]

But hopefully that will be possible in a future version. The alliances of WWII were by no means set in stone. Especially when one considers that the collapse of the Finns was the only thing preventing the likely execution of naval air attacks by the British Med fleet upon the Soviet Caucasus oilfields. (This was exhaustively planned out by the British and French gen staffs).

I have been doing some research into an unrelated matter that has caused me to read some of the major British and American periodicals of early 1940. What is fascinating is how the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany are depicted not only as moral equivalents (correctly so, I would say) but as full-fledged partners working in tandem for world domination against the democracies. It was essentially taken as a given by the western media that the free world would have to simultaneously fight both Hitler and Stalin.

Such a pairing and its implications for a divvying up of the Balkans indeed could have pushed Italy into the Allied camp, where Mussolini was in the early days of the Nazi regime. Witness any number of pre-Abyssinia quotes by Winston Churchill praising Il Duce and the Fascist regime. I believe one was to the effect of "if I were Italian, I would be wearing the black shirt." Certainly not an utterance ranking among the "their finest hour" speech in the lexicon of Churchill's quotations.

Anyhow, the point is that it would not have taken much to drastically re-order the opposing alliances of WWII. It seems as if it would not be extremely difficult to implement in terms of the SC game mechanics and would open up all sorts of fascinating "what if" possibilities.

So again, (plaintive whine), PLEEEEEEEEEZZZZZZZZZZZEEEEEEEEEEE...........

[Hubert Cater]

But hopefully that will be possible in a future version.

Not to worry, nothing is being discounted entirely for future versions

Hubert

[Uros]

I would like to see Spanish civil war as a prelude to World War 2 !

And .. World War 1 .. maybe one day :confused:

[Valadictum]

How far in the future is the future?

[Aloid]

How about one where the oil reserves in southern russia are not well developed, but reserves in the eastern mediterrainian are.

This would force a fight into turkey, down south to what, Lebanon? Would be interesting to make that corner of the map more fought over...

Or do the same in Morroco...

Aloid

[Stalin's Organ]

I think some of these campaigns are "below the horrizon" for SC - eg Crusader won't be very exciting in this sscale.

Some similar ones that will be a bit "underdone" IMO would be Torch, and the Allied invasion of Vichy Syria, and then onto Iraq.

A Spanish Civil War game might be interesting, but again it would be a very small game I think.

I suspect that a WW1 variant might be a bit more possible as a mod - just ignore armour, air, anti-tank tech, rockets, start with allied control of half of Yugoslavia (Serbia) and Axis control of the rest and Hungary (Austro-hungary), Russian control of Poland but German control of East Prussia - heck - it's almost there already!

Unfortunately the Dutch would probably end up having to fight 'cos they are made into a political unity with the Belgians, but I think that's a small problem.

Probably have to tone down the size of the Russian resource base too, and sadly it seems the Italians can't be in as themselves so perhaps start with them as conquered by the Allies.

What fun eh?? Infantry armies up the yazoo for everyone!! lol.

[Aloid]

No-one has mentioned a scenario where the invasion of Russia by Japan, actually went better than it did historically. To mimic this, possibly give some portion of Eastern Russia to the Axis. (minor Axis, called Japan? Or perhaps make it German, but that sounds too strong).

Thoughts?

Aloid

[husky65]

Originally posted by Aloid:

No-one has mentioned a scenario where the invasion of Russia by Japan, actually went better than it did historically. To mimic this, possibly give some portion of Eastern Russia to the Axis. (minor Axis, called Japan? Or perhaps make it German, but that sounds too strong).

Thoughts?

Aloid

Japan had no ability to invade Russia, they also had no motivation to invade Russia.

Japan needed oil, taking Siberia would not give them oil (the vast Siberian deposits were not discoverd until well after the war).

Japan lacked the Mech forces to do it, lacked the industry to build such forces, and lacked the motivation to build such forces.

The IJN and IJA did not co-operate well, the IJN diverting 'their' industrial muscle in support of a campaign that would have no place for their forces is simply unthinkable.

The IJA and IJN were not above assasinating each others officers.

[Aloid]

Husky, I'm thinking of Japan's attack on Russia (or where ever it was the clashed) in, what 1937? If that had gone well, then it would be an interesting scenario to have Russia with two hostile boarders.

All of your points are valid... this is just hypothetical, based on a real occurance...

What say?

Aloid

[ July 15, 2002, 08:50 PM: Message edited by: Aloid ]

[husky65]

Originally posted by Aloid:

Husky, I'm thinking of Japan's attack on Russia (or where ever it was the clashed) in, what 1937? If that had gone well, then it would be an interesting scenario to have Russia with two hostile boarders.

All of your points are valid... this is just hypothetical, based on a real occurance...

What say?

Aloid

The USSR routed the Japanese in that case, simply compare Soviet tanks and Arty to Japanese and it is pretty clear that the Japanese were not a credible threat to the USSR that would have required a major diversion of forces.

[Aloid]

Originally posted by husky65:

[The USSR routed the Japanese in that case, simply compare Soviet tanks and Arty to Japanese and it is pretty clear that the Japanese were not a credible threat to the USSR that would have required a major diversion of forces.

Hmmm... your being very defensive about this, and quite a stick in the mud... I was trying to come up with a hypothetical scenario...

If I understand correctly, the Japanese really did want to expand in this direction, and YES they had their heads handed to them... 61,000 dead to 7,000 russian dead... but it would be different, and potentially interesting...

So, how about a scenario where the dinosaurs didn't really die, and caused all kinds of problems eating Red Army soldiers the night before the Germans invaded... "I hate it when that happens"

hmmm... maybe that's your point all along, eh? Not really feasible, so possibly not fun or interesting... all in the eye of the beholder, I guess...

See you on the battlefield!

Aloid (silly me)

[ July 16, 2002, 12:17 PM: Message edited by: Aloid ]

[husky65]

Originally posted by Aloid:

"Hmmm... your being very defensive about this, "

Defensive? I'm stating facts.

"and quite a stick in the mud... I was trying to come up with a hypothetical scenario..."

Hypothetical does not = credible and I don't see a point to making absurd scenarios.

"If I understand correctly, the Japanese really did want to expand in this direction,"

I really want to sleep with supermodels, that doesn't make it a credible proposition (damn).

" and YES they had their heads handed to them... 61,000 dead to 7,000 russian dead... but it would be different, and potentially interesting..."

Different, possibly - interesting, how?

Scenario description follows-

As the USSR you must supply 1 x corp to the east (Jap) front and keep it up to strength for one year, at which time Japan will run out of fuel and their economy and military ops will collapse.

Sounds like a hoot, knock yourself out hitting the reinforce/max button for that corp.

"hmmm... maybe that's your point all along, eh? Not really feasible, so possibly not fun or interesting... all in the eye of the beholder, I guess... "

The above pretty much covers it, you would have to be able to go back decades and change the Japanese culture and industrial base to have any chance and that still doesn't change the lack of Oil that was Japans biggest (but certainly not only) resource problem.