SC2 - Franco's Response to Axis Buildup

[Edwin P.]

In many games the Axis will attack Vichy France and then buildup their forces along the Spanish border or along the coast for a few turns before deciding to invade.

In real life, if Franco saw this he would have probably sent the Axis units a warning and if they failed to respond he would have quickly mobilized troops to resist any axis invasion.

To reflect this I proposed that;

1. On turn 2 where 3+ Axis units are on the Spanish border that their be a pop-up events window from Franco Asking the Axis to withdraw their troops from the border. This a warning to the Axis player that Spain will begin to call up troops the next turn if the Axis units on the border/coast are not reduced to 2 or fewer.

2. If 3+ Axis units are on the Spanish border for more than 3 turns that Spainish AI mobilizes (1) 5pt Corps unit per turn (up to a maximum of 4 units) that this condition exists. This reflects the emergency mobilization of ill trained troops.

3. The Spanish AI would send a popup message to the Allied player requesting assitance. The allied player would have 3 options;

a. Ignore the Request (Franco more likely to Join the Axis)

b. Send Franco Minimal Amount of Financial Aid - allowing him to upgrade one 5pts Corps units to a 10pt corps unit each turn. (Cost 20MPPS per Turn)

c. Offer Franco Major Amount of Assistance, Upon Arrival of 2 Army Units on the Cost of France, Franco's Spain will join the Allied side.

[Carl G. E. von Mannerheim]

I like this idea, however it should not just Be Spain.

[JerseyJohn]

I also like this idea.

Hitler did not want to invade Spain for a number of reasons and actually expressed his admiration of Spanish ferocity and tenacity. He knew there would be a tenuous supply network and that the Spaniards would probably organize partisan bands in the mountains. Consequently there ought to be Spanish partisans against any conqueror.

Beyond that, a German invasion made little sense. Franco's regime, even as a neutral, was of great benefit to Germany. Additionally, there was both during the war and for a long time afterwards, a strong socialist sentiment among the Spaniards; Franco kept this under control where it would have developed into another Tito situation under German occupation.

Then there's the point about invading your friends; Germany's own allies would have begun taking their own precautions such as cutting back on support for Germany's war effort in the interest of defending the homeland.

[ March 19, 2003, 01:04 PM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ]

[disorder]

i agree with the idea AND both replies from jerseyjohn and von mannerheim. it should be more than just spain.

give those diplomatic BRIBERY situations a chance to work. starting with historical, but always leaving the option to attack.

there is not a lot of negotiations involving neutrals thats for sure!.perhaps in sc2 eh?

[Liam]

I agree also Franco was one of Hitler's buds, if anything the Spanish would've joined before Hitler would've invaded. They shared much in common and during the Spanish Civil War much of the equipment used was German for trial of their new War Machine... They had love for each other, some of the pilots that flew in that war were German!

[Night]

I like this idea.

[Codename Condor]

there was a meeting between franco and hitler where they discussed the enter of spain in the war, franco ask hitler half africa and part of the moon as he didnt want to enter the war, hitler obviously refused, just what franco wanted, must have been a very interesting meeting, but not for hitler for sure.

[JerseyJohn]

Hitler sent Admiral Canaris to set things up. Instead, Canaris advised Franco that Hitler had already moved most of his troops east and, after taking Gibraltar, Spain would be on it's own. Canaris told Franco that Germany could do nothing to help to Spain against British attacks nor could it make up for the loss in trade, etc.. In effect, Canaris convinced Franco that the last thing he should do was join the Axis.

Of course, he also asked Franco to keep it all under his hat, then he went on to give the same advice to Portugal's Salazar.

Upon returning to Germany Canaris continued his two sided role by telling Hitler he thought Franco was in tune with them.

Hitler and Franco met in a railway car along the French border. Hitler wanted one of the Canary Islands for a sub base but, other than Gibraltar, offered no other incentive for joining the Axis. He didn't offer any French African territory because he was still trying to get Vichy France into the fold.

By the end of the day Hitler said he'd rather have root-canal performed without anesthetic than ever meet again with Franco. It was their first and last meeting.

Brief Bio and Photo of Admiral Wilhelm Canaris

[ March 20, 2003, 06:39 PM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ]

[Codename Condor]

hehe i knew hitler was upset about the meeting but I didnt know that about the dentist issue lol, i guess franco asked hitler to take half africa and divide it but hitler was looking at russia. A very interesting person, Canaris, he made a lot of harm to the axis, and they didnt suspect anything.

[JerseyJohn]

Condor,

Franco sat silently through the whole thing. A sidekick did all the talking. The man was so disrespectul and rude that a couple of German officers said they were surprised Hitler didn't have him dragged out and shot. Hitler addressed questions directly at Franco only to have the Generalisimo shake his head while the go-between did all the talking. By the end of the meeting Hiter is said to have been trembling with silent rage.

[ March 20, 2003, 06:44 PM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ]