Iron Ranger Posted July 9, 2003 Share Posted July 9, 2003 Is SC v1.07 pro Axis, pro Allied or perfectly balanced? A short note on why you feel its one way or the other might be of interest. Ok I din't include enough info here - Looking at the game most people play 'Fall Weise' without any house rules, biding ect. Straight up as the developers 'wanted' the entire WW2 to be played. [ July 09, 2003, 09:40 PM: Message edited by: Iron Ranger ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted July 9, 2003 Share Posted July 9, 2003 I think it depends more upon the scenario than SC itself. This sounds contradictory, but the game is not symetrical and the victory conditions aren't the same for both players. It's slightly off balance by necessity. The Axis has to push and the Allies have to be able to absorb punnishment. Overall I think the game itself is fairly level. In 1939 based scenarios that are properly constructed I have no preference, so I guess I'd have to say it's equally weighted for both sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeaMonkey Posted July 9, 2003 Share Posted July 9, 2003 Agreed JJ. By the way your recent adjustments of B-L Aftermath has made it a most engrossing campaign. What ebb and flow. First the Axis must take France with the Russian Bear knocking on the door. Then with most assets tranfered to the east, here come the Americans. Axis must push very hard - west - east - west, being very careful not to over do research. There still may be a slight edge to Allies, but isn't that historic? My congrats and thanks, and I nominate this campaign for a ladder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted July 9, 2003 Share Posted July 9, 2003 SeaMonkey Many thanks -- very pleased you're enjoying the Brest-Litovsk Aftermath Scenario. At this point I regard it as a group effort: Martinov, Wachtmeister and Mannerheim, then Arby and yourself, and now Iron Ranger as the Allies has started a game with me. He's promptly come up with several really good ideas and these latest have been incorporated into the most recent version, which I'll send you later today. It's a little different from the one you've had, mostly slight though significant tweakings. Appreciate the MOD recommendation. I believe this campaign has the same basic characteristic as the Z-Plan, only more so; it isn't geared for new players. More experienced gronards might enjoy the added complications but it's full of wrong turns for inexperienced players to make. More experienced players might make those same errors but they'll realize it long before a novice, and they'll have a better chance of getting back on track. [ July 09, 2003, 02:27 PM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_j_rambo Posted July 10, 2003 Share Posted July 10, 2003 Iron Ranger --- If you're looking for the "side advantage" it depends what skill level of players are playing that particular game. The best guide: check out the bids w/ Terif, Zapp, & myself. Remember, the Bid System closes arguments. People vote with the MMP. If you don't like the UK-carriers slapping you to death, or Axis cookie-cutter, or whatever...then be a Man & bid your side. [ July 09, 2003, 09:42 PM: Message edited by: jon_j_rambo ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Fenton Posted July 10, 2003 Share Posted July 10, 2003 I play against the AI. However, my forum observations in a human vs. human game is that the Axis must have at least a slight advantage. My reasoning is due to the current bidding process. The Allied side almost always gets a significant MPP bonus after bidding ends. If the game were perfectly balanced, the MPP bids would go equally both ways and be much smaller in size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaka of Carthage Posted July 10, 2003 Share Posted July 10, 2003 Bidding is a perception of what side is the favorite. It is more than just a means of balancing. It is a way of getting as many MPPs for your advantage in a competitive game. Lets be honest here. Many of your TCP players will bid the Axis up so they get a advantage in MPPs as the Allies. I'd much rather play the Axis than the Allies. So would just about everyone else. Not many of us have the patience to take a beating while we await the Russian entry. Put some historicial constraints in (such as a limit on what neutrals the Axis can attack, air limits, etc) and you will see a different game. But now I'm getting off topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Dave Posted July 14, 2003 Share Posted July 14, 2003 As originally posted by Shaka of Carthage: Put some historicial constraints in (such as a limit on what neutrals the Axis can attack, air limits, etc) and you will see a different game. But now I'm getting off topic. Well, I would not say... constraints. Rather, why not have elaborate decision trees that would give the Player some great game-changing choices? For example: ***A box pops up and LO! "Turkey Changes Cabinet"... You must decide... RIGHT NOW... do you opt for a RANDOM possibility that you MIGHT receive favorable diplomatic influence, IF... you spend say, 50 MPPs? THEN, another choice comes along LATER in the game... related to similar meddling in Turkish politics... perhaps even MORE favorable to you, BUT... ONLY if you had chosen this path to begin with! **(... in this way, the Conservative player could always essentially ignore these events, thereby maintaining the status quo) See, the Computer CAN remember ALL sorts of things, and keep the choices stored in 1/0 memory files to POSSIBLY influence later events! Now, there are literally NO END to these kinds of choices... whether Military (... OKW re-assigns Rommel to Libya... whether you WANT IT OR NOT... it just happens! and Rommel is whisked away from wherever he is wreaking havoc... to Libya, Or it could be Economic (... workers go on strike, or, downturn in the market, or forced labor sabotages production, etc etc) or even Having to do with SUDDEN changes in the Weather, which might force a howling WolfPack to return to base? See, you could have uncounted Events that would all be based on RANDOM chance... this would insure that the SOLO player at least, would NEVER EVER have the same game twice. :cool: Also, for human VS human, there would always be that lightning strike! that would foil even the most nefarious of Foes... you are losing ground to the berserkers in Russia... BUT! All of sudden Zukhov is taken ill with potato peel scurvy and is out of play for 6 months! NOW, that T-34 strike force is without a HQ! :eek: Reprieve in the East! You see what I mean? Let's have DECISION TREES galore! Where each and every choice, like the merry maiden selecting out the most suitable suitors, would influence love & war events... for years to come! What say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Dave Posted July 14, 2003 Share Posted July 14, 2003 Sorry, didn't respond to the original question. YES, the Axis has the advantage. In almost every scenario, mod or not, that I have ever played, and I've played a lot. However, decision trees as outlined in my post above would go a long way toward eliminating this advantage, yes? You could even have the Wily Computer keep track of "the score" (... I am presuming a more elaborate schematic in SC2) and THEN Introduce willy-nilly! some strange and interesting events that would tend to restore the balance! ... though, not so much that it would be unusually obtrusive. Example: Axis is crushing every innocent tree and Sherman coffin-unit and hut and they are way out ahead! of the game. So... here comes! a decision-tree Event that says something like... "Hitler Meddles Yet Again" and lo and behold, NOW 2 whole armies! are randomly re-assigned 6 or 8 hexes away from the Fortress Europa front... to make their way back, but by then! It's too late and USA has finally taken Brest! See what I mean? The possibilities for outright FLAMBOYANCE!! are very nearly infinite! :cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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