elliott Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 Hello all, I'm new around here, and have yet to find a PBEM partner, but would like to ask some questions on what is considered ethical play... I see that there are some inherrant security flaws in the PBEM system, such as: - the possibility of modifying the save game file binary - the obvious ability of someone to play thier turn over and over until it comes out to thier liking before sending it back - how do you know that the campaign your opponent started is really what you think it is and unmodified? I know from my years of experiences with online play in other games that there is no sure-fire way to stop cheating... (and the best bet is to play with people whom you know and trust) I guess what I'm really asking, is what possibly cheap things do people commonly do, and what should I watch out for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer39 Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 I would say it depends on what you call cheap. The things you mentioned I would consider out and out cheating. Some people (including myself on occasion) take advantage of the game engine. Some exploits are: loading and unloading a unit at port to get a supply bonus, surrounding Moscow but not taking it, this preventing the Russians from buying more units, etc. I normally ask whomever I am playing if they want to play with any house rules before starting in order to see what is fair and what's not. I usally go with no invaions of North America till UK has Fallen and no Italian Gambit. Landing a large army by use of transports on the outset of Barbarossa usally riles people up as well. These are mostly personal issues that vary from game to game. As for actual cheating, in my experience, I have not played anyone in PBEM whom I felt has cheated. Probably because there is little incentive to doing so (my rank is abysmal in the league right now). However if you notice that your units are ALWAYS destroyed and not simply damaged from relatively few attacks(replaying for better combat roles) that may be a sign, like wise it could also be a sign of a good player Or if your opponent has level 5 jets in 1940 ( again could be extremely good luck, but less likely). I'm sure some of the more competitive players have more advice than me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feldtrompeter Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 Hi elliot PBEM is not cheat-prove in SC. There are even more ways to cheat than you mentioned. I really hope Hubert finds a way to better the situation for SC2. A waterprove PBEM you have in the CM series. Unfortunately you cannot copy that for SC. Feldtrompeter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt88 Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 Korsun Pocket has a secure emailer, maybe Mr. H. should look into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaka of Carthage Posted April 14, 2004 Share Posted April 14, 2004 Elliot At the moment, you have to discuss with your opponent the things you feel are wrong and should not be allowed. Even so, things will come up during the course of you playing that you have not covered. Both players should keep an open mind and discuss the issue. Agree on how to handle it then proceed forward. Thats the best you can do right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kossuth Posted April 14, 2004 Share Posted April 14, 2004 Whats the point cheating ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les the Sarge 9-1 Posted April 14, 2004 Share Posted April 14, 2004 Cheating only cheats the cheater. Put another way, I find it major cool to be able to sit at my computer and whup and holler when I kick yer butt. Now if I win because I cheat, I might as well be wanking and patting myself on the back at how good I am at it. If you play anyone, and it is clear they can do no wrong, sure be suspicious. Because even our great players can't win all the time. The game is supposed to use random chance during resolution of combat effects. Keep in mind of course, if you play average at best, and don't fully exploit the games mechanics, don't assume your opponent will match that. An experienced unit, fighting from a decent position, vs a poorly set up defense will cause a lot of harm to the defender. Play the game against the AI a good bunch. When the AI starts looking kinda dumb, you will know you are getting better. Watch for the results against the AI, and learn the basics of what you can call "average" conditions. Because the AI isn't worthless in SC, just not very "imaginative" at all times. But it is good at showing you what the average response in casualties will be like. I am a veteran wargamer. I have been playing wargames of this sort long before some of our community were even breathing. But against human opponents, I have yet so far only taken a single actuall till end of game victory. And I have been given some serious butt stompings. I therefore can attest, that if you refuse to read the manual and the SC startegy guide, your game WILL suffer against human players. I have not played SC to death like a good handful of our crowd though. To become "legendary" you have to give up sex, eating regular, decent sleep, and interacting with family hehe. I like the game, but not that much If you play one of those demons, be assured, you will be up against a person that can seemingly do nothing wrong (aside from getting a proper amount of the things I mentioned above hehe). The game itself can be "exploited" though, by persons of limited personal pride and a desire to make you think they are great (even if they have to lie to themselves to do it). The file sent back and forth in PBEM is hardly what I would call a secure process. Maybe Hubert can address that with something more rugged (outside of my expertise how though). Better solution is to consult the SC community for submissions of superior players by reputation. Here is a good starting link. http://www.battlefront.com/cgi-bin/bbs/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=18;t=003464 Thread is not entirely fresh, but the content is worth checking over if you need opponents of quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill101 Posted April 15, 2004 Share Posted April 15, 2004 Long term strategy really is the key to success in this game, and no amount of reloading is going to make up for a hopeless strategy. However, where reloading could help is with both research advances and launching attacks on really important targets. If your opponent is always winning their combats extremely easily, and you suspect that they might be loading and reloading their turns until they get things right, then ask them to play by TCP/IP the next time. That way you'll be able to see just how good they really are. But my main advice is not to worry about it and just play. I really think that the vast majority of players play it straight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elliott Posted April 15, 2004 Author Share Posted April 15, 2004 Thanks everyone, I just wanted a survey as to how rampant of a problem this may be. It has ruined other games I've played. It dosen't seem to be a problem here for the most part. I'd hypothesize that its because of the gamer demographic attracted to SC. People who have the patience to play an extended strategy game usually don't have the motivation to cheat themselves and those they are playing as much as the twitch kiddies playing first person shooters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Becephalus Posted April 16, 2004 Share Posted April 16, 2004 I think that has to do with why people play, while most of both types obviously play for fun I think there is a larger proportion among he kiddies who also use gaming as a self esteem booster and thus are tempted to cheat. If you just want to have fun cheating really loses its appeal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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