Treeburst155 Posted February 14, 2001 Share Posted February 14, 2001 A quick experiment in the editor will reveal that visibility through bocage into summer wheat (June-August) only penetrates 20 meters into the wheat. This is if you are right up against the bocage. So how come my PBEM opponent is targetting a squad of mine through bocage and 76 meters of summer wheat with a StuH 42? If I could do this I could blow him right out of his foxholes without ever sending my people into the hail of lead that awaits them when they clear the bocage. Any comments? Treeburst155 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted February 15, 2001 Share Posted February 15, 2001 I don't know, but is the wheat field on a hill that where the distance would be a little closer than 76m on flat ground? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treeburst155 Posted February 15, 2001 Author Share Posted February 15, 2001 Hi Maximus! Still got that .50 cal ammo ready? The StuH 42 is on the same elevation as my squad. The map is very flat. I'm gonna get murdered in this game if his armor can fire through bocage at 3 times the distance mine can. I'm getting murdered without the bug actually. Treeburst 155 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted February 15, 2001 Share Posted February 15, 2001 Wouldn't the tank crew have a slight height advantage (especially if unbuttoned, but looking through the commander's periscope would give the crew a few inches extra height - assuming infantry is standing. Crouching or prone infantry would be several feet lower than the commander's vision blocks.) I'm off to complete my next turn - glad there's no bocage in Nijmegen, or my ears would have been burning.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curih Posted February 15, 2001 Share Posted February 15, 2001 As TreeBurst155's opponent I should probably weigh in on this. The StuH42 is also limited to ~20m visiblity into the wheat, it's also looking through bocage but is right up next to it. However, it I move the targeting line around there are points here and there where the line will flicker to completely clear LOS for no particular reason. As his squads advance, these little spots rea like landmines because they immediately get hit with a 105mm shell. curih Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treeburst155 Posted February 15, 2001 Author Share Posted February 15, 2001 This definitely makes bocage scenarios more difficult than they already are. I think this issue is more important than the hand grenade/halftrack bug that's attracting so much attention. If I could help it I wouldn't let the enemy get within hand grenade distance of one of my halftracks anyway. I wonder if it's just summer wheat or if other LOS inhibiting terrain has the same characteristic? Treeburst155 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JunoReactor Posted February 15, 2001 Share Posted February 15, 2001 I dont understand why a AFV would get its LOS blocked by wheat, especially a few meters beyond the field since the gunner/commander in the AFV looks from a elevated POV.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dschugaschwili Posted February 15, 2001 Share Posted February 15, 2001 You can only see through bocage (more than a few meters) if you're standing very close to it. If your distance to the bocage is more than a few meters, you can only see the area immediately behing it, but not further. I don't think the wheat field is the problem here. Dschugaschwili ------------------ Erst hat man kein Glück, und dann kommt auch noch Pech dazu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treeburst155 Posted February 15, 2001 Author Share Posted February 15, 2001 Dscugaswili, you need to read the original post more carefully. The fact is that MY armor, jammed right up against the bocage, could not see or fire more than 20 meters into the summer wheat (30 meters from bocage); while my opponents armor, jammed right up against the bocage was firing through 76 meters of wheat. Two identical situations, but he can fire 3 times further into the wheat. Normal visibility through summer wheat is 94 meters. Winter wheat is 232 meters. I have no idea how they arrived at these figures since I've never seen a wheatfield in person that I can remember. Treeburst155 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoePrivate Posted February 15, 2001 Share Posted February 15, 2001 Treeburst155 has something here. When the StuH42 is right next to the bocage its LOS is blocked at around 30m to one side but on the other side there are 'spots' where its LOS extends up 100m. Yet when the StuH42 is moved a little back from the bocage then its LOS only extends to around 30m on both sides. The only thing I'm not sure of is if you can actually drive an AFV up to the bocage that close in a game, as displayed in the first image, without it backing off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treeburst155 Posted February 15, 2001 Author Share Posted February 15, 2001 A vehicle will tend to give itself movement orders when you push it right up against the bocage; however, I was fired at for 3 consecutive turns while 76 meters into the wheat. This was done at 3 separate targets. Any adjustment the vehicle makes does not cause it to lose LOS. EDIT: Are you sure that's summer wheat? Treeburst155 [This message has been edited by Treeburst155 (edited 02-15-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curih Posted February 16, 2001 Share Posted February 16, 2001 Those pictures are very similar to what i saw while giving targeting orders in the game. My StuH was about as close as you have them in the second set, but I still had those little magic spots where I could see much further. My first thought was "Cool, they model being able to see much further down the rows than across them." But on closer inspectio it turned out that it wasn't a long line I could see, just one distant spot. If I shortened the targeting line by a meter or two it would lose los again. curih Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Madmatt Posted February 16, 2001 Share Posted February 16, 2001 Edited cause as I suspected it was all Runes fault... Madmatt [This message has been edited by Madmatt (edited 02-16-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Madmatt Posted February 16, 2001 Share Posted February 16, 2001 Okay, I see a problem. Seems to be isolated with that one Map on that Hedgerow battle. My guess is somehow Rune did something funky when making that map (maybe he used a internal beta build or somfink) but if you recreate a map that looks exactly like it, LOS through wheat behaves correctly, i.e. blocked. I am tracing this issue right now but I would reccomend shying away from that battle until I can figure out what is occuring. Madmatt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jaja Posted February 17, 2001 Share Posted February 17, 2001 I told you! LOS is not even through hedgerows! I tested and tested and proved my point, but everyone just told me that no one care and for me to go away. You made me sad, but now is my time for vengence! Reap the fruit of your insulence mere mortals! MURHAHAHAHA! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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