Apache Posted April 1, 2001 Share Posted April 1, 2001 I read an article at CMHQ by Fionn Kelly which talks about having tanks on the flanks of an advancing wedge formation orientate their turrets to face their respective flanks. Am I missing something here, was this command available once? I have tried every combination and cannot control their turrets my self. Also, has anyone seen the 'hull down' indicator that is supposed to appear over the firing and/or target vehicle (dependant on who is). I've tried lots of tank only QBs just to test this, even when the AI seems to have got its tanks well hull down the indicator doesn't appear. Does it appear as a label (eg only when 'labels' or 'show detailed hits' is enabled) or should it come up automatically in the move phase when you use LOS or Target. I've not sen it once (game is v1.12). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted April 1, 2001 Share Posted April 1, 2001 Originally posted by Apache: I read an article at CMHQ by Fionn Kelly which talks about having tanks on the flanks of an advancing wedge formation orientate their turrets to face their respective flanks. Am I missing something here, was this command available once? I have tried every combination and cannot control their turrets my self. No, there is no separate turret orientation order. This has been discussed to death and the reasoning why it is not included is because that would increase the micromanagement factor too much. This is what the Tac-AI is for. People don't give enought credit to the Tac-AI. Also, has anyone seen the 'hull down' indicator that is supposed to appear over the firing and/or target vehicle (dependant on who is). I've tried lots of tank only QBs just to test this, even when the AI seems to have got its tanks well hull down the indicator doesn't appear. Does it appear as a label (eg only when 'labels' or 'show detailed hits' is enabled) or should it come up automatically in the move phase when you use LOS or Target. I've not sen it once (game is v1.12). A "Hull Down" label is displayed when you have a tank selected and use the Target or the LOS tool onto a target unit, as Hull Down is only relevent between the shooting unit and the target unit. The bow MG can also be "blocked". This happens when a vehicle is hull-down as it is behind a ridge where the hull mounted MG is below the ridge. However the co-axial MG should be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. Bates Posted April 1, 2001 Share Posted April 1, 2001 Originally posted by Maximus: No, there is no separate turret orientation order. This has been discussed to death and the reasoning why it is not included is because that would increase the micromanagement factor too much. This is what the Tac-AI is for. People don't give enought credit to the Tac-AI. Heh, it's weird that buttoning/unbuttoning Machine Gun Carriers is not micromanagement, whereas deciding where a tank should swing it's gun is micromanagement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted April 1, 2001 Share Posted April 1, 2001 Well yes, but that is to save your TC from small arms fire. That micromanagement is to prevent casualties where-as turret control is something that the Tac-AI does and has no consequences with crew casulties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
:USERNAME: Posted April 1, 2001 Share Posted April 1, 2001 Oh crap. The TacAI does not know to anticipate targets. Its just reacts to targets. The micromanagement of the tank commanders head is OK as well as his every move but which way to watch is not. Old blundering butt strikes again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. Bates Posted April 1, 2001 Share Posted April 1, 2001 Originally posted by Maximus: ... turret control is something that the Tac-AI does and has no consequences with crew casulties. Yes, EXCEPT when you KNOW that beyond that crop of houses to the LEFT there is an enemy tank. And so your own tank advances with its turret facing perfectly forwards (or is even distracted by deadly bailed crews). Where would AFVs like the American Hellcat be if in real life it had to present it's flank to the enemy before swinging the turret around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forever Babra Posted April 1, 2001 Share Posted April 1, 2001 Standard IDF march column. It would be nice if turrets were controllable to allow more finesse with formation tactics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtweasle Posted April 2, 2001 Share Posted April 2, 2001 Would be nice. As things stand now the TacAI does not control the turret in a realistic fashion in a variety of circumstances. It's been improved somewhat and now "sticks" a little better, but it could be better. A work around, primarily when stationary, is the AMBUSH command. The turret will rotate and stay pointed to that. Dangerous though durring movement... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radar Posted April 2, 2001 Share Posted April 2, 2001 I've noted another 'dirty' way of getting the turret to rotate. Its full of uncertainty too. Give your tank an area target fire order in the direction you want the turret to rotate and have it fire the MG. The AFV will rotate the turret to keep the turret on the aim point even while moving. There isn't a max range for this either. There are many drawbacks to this however, among them is you must have a LOS to set a target point, but once it is set the target point will stay even if there is a loss of LOS(as far as I can tell). This order will be cancelled by the AI once an enemy is sighted. [This message has been edited by Radar (edited 04-01-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forever Babra Posted April 2, 2001 Share Posted April 2, 2001 That's a workable work-around, radar. I'd settle for a "sector arc cover" command or something similar. I don't need (or really want) to be able to control the turret of every tank, just to tell them to idle in the right general direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apache Posted April 2, 2001 Author Share Posted April 2, 2001 I understand the argument about micro-management but do not accept it in this case. AFAIK it is standard practice in almost every army in the world that tanks move in cohesion and those on the flanks orientate to the flanks (unless engaging a threat in front). Not 'everyone move facing forward and if you see a target, waste 30 seconds by traversing the turret'. I would not expect to be able to micro-manage turrets during a firefight, but when initiating movement to contact I think you should be able to. The point I was making about the article was that it was written for CM and it sounded like the command was there once (in a Beta?). [This message has been edited by Apache (edited 04-02-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted April 2, 2001 Share Posted April 2, 2001 Originally posted by Maximus: Well yes, but that is to save your TC from small arms fire. That micromanagement is to prevent casualties where-as turret control is something that the Tac-AI does and has no consequences with crew casulties. !?!? I would think that whether or not a tank gets penetrated by an AT round would have rather major consequences with crew casualties. ------------------ What a bunch of horsecrap. -Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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