Why does artillery not report casualties?

[ElGuapo]

I have been in many games where I have gotten known kills with FOs. My opponent has said that specific arty strikes caused casualties. But invariably, my arty spotters at the end of the game report no kills or very few kills.

Is this becasue they cannot see the hits occuring? Is it because arty kills do not count? I'm curious as to what other people think, as well as maybe the official word from Battlefront.

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On a related note, I'm wondering why artillery is not more damaging in CM. From what I have read (from several sources), arty was the cause of 30-75% of battlefiend casualties in a typical engagement. So why does all but the biggest (150 and above) seem to do nothing besides supress a bit? And 60 mm not even that?

Curious,

ElGuapo

[Pvt. Ryan]

Only identified kills are reported. Artillery spotters are usually too far away from the action to tell exactly which kills are theirs.

[JasonC]

You don't see the kills because that is only a confirmed number. The shooter has to see the men fall for them to go into that score. Infantry in close combat will generally get "full credit"; MGs at range little, and artillery practically none. Vehicle kills are obviously easier to see and so easier to get credit for. Vehicle shooters are intermediate between MGs and infantry. They do a lot of their shooting at range, but also have sights and such.

As for the effectiveness of artillery, it is quite effective, but it does depend quite a bit on cover. And the lighter types will suppress more than they kill - but that, rather effectively. Also, you should not expect a few rounds to do the job - fire missions are minutes long.

As for light mortars, they will generally put about 1/3rd of their rounds close enough to the target to have any effect. Over their ammo load, you can expect a target in woods cover to lose 1-3 men and be pinned to broken. Or you can get a similar effect in one turn by using several mortars, then switching to a new target.

The tactical role of light mortars is point-suppression, especially against MGs and guns. They will generally not hurt enemies with overhead cover - in buildings that is - but can handle targets in woods easily. With the off-map mortar FOs, which represent a full battery of 6 mortars firing, the suppression will cover a wide area, pinning a platoon, typically.

Notice also that enemy troop quality alters the effectiveness of artillery. Vets will be less suppressed than regulars or greens. Greens without foxhole cover can generally be broken by light mortar fire. Veterans in foxholes will lose a few men and be momentarily suppressed, but up and firing again a few minutes later. Stone buildings are adequate cover against light mortars, too.

But once you get up to the medium artillery, the direct effect is more dramatic. 105mm arty, 4.2" or 120mm mortars, 4.5" guns - will all pin or break troops in cover, and inflict serious (though not annihilating) losses. A platoon left under a full module's worth of such medium artillery is not going to hurt anyone for the rest of the battle, and even half a module's worth of medium artillery ammo will generally thoroughly suppress any infantry target. Only stone buildings, since they protect strongly against near misses, can allow good troops to "ride out" a medium barrage. And not always, even then.

The proper use of medium artillery is to break defenders right before a charge, as in the "rolling barrage" technique. Light mortars can usually do something similar only to attackers, meaning units "above ground", thus with limited cover.

5.5", 150mm, and 155mm artillery - and everything heavier - is a much more serious proposition, and will inflict very high losses on anything near when the shells go off. The number of shells is far less of course, so the average distance to the nearest hit is farther. The rate of fire is also slower. The result is more uneven suppression, but those units close to impacts will be more thoroughly and permanently messed up. When heavy artillery starts landing, the best thing to do is to run clear. The time between impacts is long enough to make it a meaningful distance, and only distance - not cover or hunkering down - will really protect against the heaviest shells.

I hope this is useful.

[Triumvir]

Of course, none of the breaking and running helps when the opponent adjusts fire every round; that minute pause is typically enough to let the broken units scramble right into the follow-on salvo.

Incidentally, I wish that there wasn't the arbitrary shifting fire range limitation; dropping 400m at a time is not an uncommon FO task. The Red God of War demands his sacrifices, and it's harder and harder to give them to him if you have to wait three minutes at a time... 8)

A suggestion for CM II -- when adjusting fire, any adjustment of less than 500m (I'd say 1km, but I don't know enough about WWII pieces to say) should probably be treated like the current adjustment for less than 100m (i.e. 30 sec delay). It takes no more effort for the FO to call such shifts in than for shifts of 50m.

[Stalin's Organ]

Maybe because the FO hasn't actually killed anyone?

[Gyrene]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Maybe because the FO hasn't actually killed anyone? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Stalin, now we're reaching into Philosophical territory here

"The soldiers didn't kill anyone, their bullets did"

Gyrene

[Stalin's Organ]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gyrene:

Stalin, now we're reaching into Philosophical territory here

"The soldiers didn't kill anyone, their bullets did"

Gyrene<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, but hte FO is not firing the weapons that are causing the casualties..

HQ's that are directing on-board artillery do not get credit for kills by the artillery, so why should FO's get credit for directing off-board artillery?

[Pvt. Ryan]

FOs do get credit for casualties if you are daring enough to put them up front. It's usually not more than one or two, but I have seen it. It would be nice if CM2 included a non-FOW game summary screen so we can see how units performed. I know this has been mentioned before, but I don't know if BTS has commented on it.