German command structure question

[Hans]

Would the second in command of a German pioneer battalion title be, translated as "executive officer" or what would be the appropriate title?

Thanks

[Michael Dorosh]

officer zbV - zur besondere Verwendung (?) - officer for special purposes.

According to Büchner. This referred to an officer with, I think, no "official" duties but could fill in where required?. Büchner lists only a battalion commander, Adjutant, and officer zbV as part of the battalion staff.

[Joachim]

zBV (zur besonderen Verwendung) is a reserve. But I doubt reserve for the Btn CO. It may not be a high ranking officer (ie 2nd highest ranking in btn) but anything else.

In a divison, they had 1b for chief of staff, 1c and 1d for intelligence and quartermaster or sumfink. So for a divison: 1b = XO

I guess there was no 1b on btn staff, however. A company commander would take over, probably getting a briefing from the junior officers in the staff.

Officers were scarce and you won't waste a captain just as a reserve (if there was more than one in the btn anyway). Official doctrine called for the btn CO briefing coy COs before a mission, so any coy CO should be able to take over.

Typical structure of a btn on paper is:

LtCol, some Lts

Major (1st Coy)

Captains, maybe 1stLts (other Coys)

Lts (specific plts)

Field strength after rest&refit more like

Major/Captain. Maybe 1 Lt

Captains and Lts

Lts and Sgts

No room for XOs

Gruß

Joachim

[Michael Dorosh]

The Germans were quite different from the Americans, British, Canadians et al that way - officers were much more rare as Joachim points out.

Thanks for the correction on the spelling, was going by memory. I've seen it translated loosely as "officer for special missions" and described as someone to keep "in the commander's hip pocket." Your logic makes sense that he would be lower in rank. However, I am informed that whiile officers in the German Army were fewer in number, they also performed more important tasks than equivalently ranked officers in other armies. While in the Canadian Army we had so many subalterns we actually gave over 600 to the British, a Leutnant in the German Army might command a company in a war service battalion. I get the impression a "lowly" Leutnant was much more respected and had more authority than a US "brown bar" or British "one-pip wonder"?

A standard infantry company only had one officer platoon commander, which makes one wonder at first blush where company commanders would come from if both the company commander and officer platoon commander were killed. However, a look at CW battalions kind of points out a similar case - I think the instance of subalterns being promoted without a lot of experience was low, and you do see captains and majors moving from battalion to battalion (and changing regiments in the process - a Major in the Calgary Highlanders, for example, being promoted to command the South Saskatchewan Regiment, for example) rather than simply promoting platoon commanders. Probably the same in the German Army, yes?

I believe that quartermaster, transport, supply and similar functions at the battalion level performed by officers in the CW armies were performed by NCOs in the German Army?

[ June 22, 2004, 11:50 AM: Message edited by: Michael Dorosh ]

[Hans]

Thanks I thought you guys would have the answer...and you did. I think in that scenario the XO will become the Adjutant to make it more historically correct.

[Joachim]

Originally posted by Michael Dorosh:

The Germans were quite different from the Americans, British, Canadians et al that way - officers were much more rare as Joachim points out.

Thanks for the correction on the spelling, was going by memory. I've seen it translated loosely as "officer for special missions" and described as someone to keep "in the commander's hip pocket." Your logic makes sense that he would be lower in rank. However, I am informed that whiile officers in the German Army were fewer in number, they also performed more important tasks than equivalently ranked officers in other armies. While in the Canadian Army we had so many subalterns we actually gave over 600 to the British, a Leutnant in the German Army might command a company in a war service battalion. I get the impression a "lowly" Leutnant was much more respected and had more authority than a US "brown bar" or British "one-pip wonder"?

A standard infantry company only had one officer platoon commander, which makes one wonder at first blush where company commanders would come from if both the company commander and officer platoon commander were killed. However, a look at CW battalions kind of points out a similar case - I think the instance of subalterns being promoted without a lot of experience was low, and you do see captains and majors moving from battalion to battalion (and changing regiments in the process - a Major in the Calgary Highlanders, for example, being promoted to command the South Saskatchewan Regiment, for example) rather than simply promoting platoon commanders. Probably the same in the German Army, yes?

I believe that quartermaster, transport, supply and similar functions at the battalion level performed by officers in the CW armies were performed by NCOs in the German Army?

Even in my 1988 training co we had just 2 officers for 200+ men. Most administrative duty was done by the "Spieß" aka "Kompaniefeldwebel" aka "company sergeant(major)". From all I read that did not change much since '39. Note that Germany does not have a class system in the armed forces like the Brits do. If a recruit has some beers with his Captain - so what. If an NCO has his duty and some officers messes with that. No problem. The officer might win the first round. Next round sees somebody higher up.

Officers in the German army might get promoted from plt to co commander. But they might as well come from somewhere else. They don't stay in "their" regiment.

Gruß

Joachim