Pvt. Ryan Posted February 18, 2001 Share Posted February 18, 2001 Tiger, I apologize for the improper assumption. I truly appreciate your work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kump Posted February 18, 2001 Author Share Posted February 18, 2001 Okay, I got my answer. Feelings noted. I'll continue to "butcher" as I see fit on my game, but I'll refrain from publicly showing it. Roger and out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIG DD Posted February 18, 2001 Share Posted February 18, 2001 tiger what he did is all any of us do....mod....so i dont see a prob releasing some thing if he gives the proper credit and tells what he did....jeeze its only a mod not the mona lisa...btw he recolored my terrain and i like it so kump go ahead and release that terrain if u like but let every one know how u achieved your mod. ------------------ MAKE IT SHORT AND SWEET THEN GET THE F#$K OUT [This message has been edited by BIG DD (edited 02-18-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger Posted February 19, 2001 Share Posted February 19, 2001 tiger what he did is all any of us do....mod....so i dont see a prob releasing some thing if he gives the proper credit and tells what he did....jeeze its only a mod not the mona lisa... There's such a thing as having a little consideration for others as well. I believe it's inconsiderate to mod something that's just been released the same day, use two different people's hard work, without even asking the people's whose work it is. Since it is only a mod and not the 'mona lisa', it shouldn't be too difficult for you to do your own. You'll learn alot and get more satisfaction from it, imho. btw he recolored my terrain and i like it so kump go ahead and release that terrain if u like but let every one know how u achieved your mod. Yes but he didn't mod and show off your terrain the same day you released yours. And what if you didn't happen to like it, would it still be ok? My personal stance is that you should do your own modding for Combat Mission and if you are going to use other's work, ask them before-hand out of common courtesy. For example, I have a awesome way to add to the basic terrain tiles, but I have not done it because it would involve using someone else's mod. I've tried doing the terrain tiles myself from scratch but haven't been able to get quite the right look as this other mod's terrain achieved. Did I go ahead and mod it and post it on the forum? No. I sent an e-mail asking permission. If he says no, guess what? I won't do it. If he says yes, great. I'm certainly not going to do it as if he doesn't exist and hadn't put his own work into it. Regards, -Tiger ps~ there was an incident on this forum a couple months ago about someone using web-pages from someone else's combat mission site. Would this be considered ok? Heck, it's only web pages, not the emancipation proclamation.... [This message has been edited by Tiger (edited 02-18-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kump Posted February 19, 2001 Author Share Posted February 19, 2001 Tiger, Please, don't jump to the conclusion that I was offering a mod, which never was stated. Also, I made it quite clear what I had done, giving credit where due. The only issue here is was it common courtesy to publicly show it on the forum without e-mailing and getting personal okays from original authors? I discovered that it annoys some. The folks it annoys are those I don't wish to annoy, though there are many others I do. So I back off. However, please note that I'm not intimidated by this in the slightest. CM graphics are open, and that means, modified graphics are open as well. If I had a mod that I modify again and the original mod author says "no, don't release it". Guess what? It can still be released. Its community property. Open graphics can not be closed by someone putting their wonderful touch on the original. It remains open, as BTS intended. If I release without original mod author approval, then I've not been cordial and respectful, but I've done nothing that is not allowed. There are no rules about this thing, there is just mod author etiquette. Now, me being a mod slut and all, mod author's rule. I try to follow the "unspoken and cordial rule of not pissing off those who toil long hours to increase the enjoyment of the rest of us" rule. Now it appears that my 1.5 hour work to color, cut, paste, touch up, then show off in school boy excitement of what a couple of hours of merging your favorite mods can do has broken that rule. Again, I apologize. I didn't send e-mail before a public showing. I'll refrain in future, not because its required, but because mod author's with the real talent need to be respected and have their wishes heard. Alright, I'm off the soap box. I've removed the graphics portion that offended. I did not intend to stir things up. I only wish the matter closed. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIG DD Posted February 19, 2001 Share Posted February 19, 2001 u missed my point... dont take your self so seriously we are all here to enhance the cm experience.the post in it's self was a ask for permission to release the mod and you said no ,thats ok. as far as i know there wasn't a dl link to get it so no harm done.garry isnt a novice when it comes to dealing with mods and their makers ,he did run cm outpost. now the only reason u dont want it released is that he didnt work on it himself...well he did. no matter how small the improvement he did take the time to recolor and match things up and i know what your thinking he should have tried to do a completly new mod on his own and to some extent i agree ..my point its a mod and its a improvement ,others would like to enjoy it so all i ask is to think of what harm would be done here if it was released with proper credit and aknowledgement given. p.s.from one mod guy to another u do first rate stuff. ------------------ MAKE IT SHORT AND SWEET THEN GET THE F#$K OUT [This message has been edited by BIG DD (edited 02-18-2001).] [This message has been edited by BIG DD (edited 02-18-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger Posted February 19, 2001 Share Posted February 19, 2001 Kump, I wasn't trying to intimidate you in the slightest. I doubt that can be accomplished on a mere forum. Was simply stating my position. I do not consider mods that people put their hard work into as "community property" and would hope that most people feel the same. You can try this "community property" idea on any "skinning site" for Tribes or Quake, et. al. and see how far it gets you. Again do your own modding, and if you want to use someone else's work then simply ask. I do not think this is too much to ask for. I've had a number of people ask to use my mods, most of the time I said "sure go for it", occassionally I said no because I didn't feel comfortable letting someone else change my mod. If you really want to have every mod as community property, well, there's an easy solution to that. u missed my point... dont take your self so seriously we are all here to enhance the cm experience.the post in it's self was a ask for permission to release the mod and you said no ,thats ok. as far as i know there wasn't a dl link to get it so no harm done.garry isnt a novice when it comes to dealing with mods and their makers ,he did run cm outpost. know the only reason u dont want it released is that he didnt work on it himself And you're putting in things that I did not say. I never said he didn't do any work on it. I do not take my self seriously however I do take my modding seriously, as I've put alot of time and effort into it. And if there is no harm done and it has been handled already as you say (and it had, I thought), then why are you continuing to bring this discussion back up? There's no point in doing mods if there's not going to be any common decency and courtesy. -Tiger PS~I see you've removed the parts of your pics that have my mod parts on. This is certainly not what I meant. All I asked is that you simply have the courtesy to ask the original mod maker first, esp if you end up distributing the mod. I gave my opinion that I didn't think it was cool (probably due to the fact kump did it the day the original mod was released). Apparently someone wanted to ask the question but didn't want to hear the answer. Sorry bout that. [This message has been edited by Tiger (edited 02-18-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIG DD Posted February 19, 2001 Share Posted February 19, 2001 ...AND THEY LIVED HAPPILY EVER AFTER .. THE END. ------------------ MAKE IT SHORT AND SWEET THEN GET THE F#$K OUT [This message has been edited by BIG DD (edited 02-18-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kump Posted February 19, 2001 Author Share Posted February 19, 2001 Tiger, Okay, I'm trying to obey that "don't upset the mod author rule", but I find myself egged on by your response. The example of Quake skins didn't sit well with me and I couldn't care what that community would "feel" if I did whatever. Community property is that which the community may download and do as they will. The only justification for not releasing a modified "mod author's work" without their permission is manners and good taste. Period. But you are right Tiger, there is a set of unspoken rules for proper behavior on handling mods. Not legal, but a standard that earns ire from the community when someone "crosses the line". But if someone doesn't mind the negative attention and wishes to cross the line, then cross it they shall and not you or I can do a thing about it, except flame them here at our favorite forum. And believe me, I'll join you in the flame. Geez, I've got a wonderful operation game I need to get back to. What the heck is wrong with me? [This message has been edited by kump (edited 02-18-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kump Posted February 19, 2001 Author Share Posted February 19, 2001 by Tiger Apparently someone wanted to ask the question but didn't want to hear the answer. Sorry bout that. Excellent point! Just a little surprised by the answer. But it was heard and it will be heeded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger Posted February 19, 2001 Share Posted February 19, 2001 Geez Kump all I was talking about was common courtesy not legal ownership. Because you know what, there is something a person can do when common courtesy and such is done away with: Stop making the mods. If asking for a little common courtesy ruffles your feathers thank goodness I didn't demand anything You'll probably notice when I started out I didn't just cut and paste from Kwazydog's and ColCoolJ's mods that were already out there. I looked at them, said "hey I think I can do that myself", and went about doing it. Alot of hard work has paid off. I would be more than thrilled to have you use my mods, however could you just avoid doing it the same day it was released and yes it would be nice to know about it. In this topic discussion I realized that posting the pic and what you wrote were essentially asking if it was ok, but people kept saying that "oh he wouldn't mind, he won't mind", and here I am thinking, "I do kind of mind". So I gave my opinion. One of the reasons a mod author might say no is he had plans to do something similiar (not in this case though...Sh*t brown is just not my style ) Anyways I think this has been blown out of proportion and good luck with your game. -Tiger [This message has been edited by Tiger (edited 02-18-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kump Posted February 19, 2001 Author Share Posted February 19, 2001 I agree Tiger. No insult intended. No harm really done. I'll avoid the "same day" goof in the future and ALWAYS e-mail first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pvt. Ryan Posted February 19, 2001 Share Posted February 19, 2001 Tiger, I only said it once and I have already apologized. Incidentally, I always thought the brown Stug was your mod until I realized it came from the MDMP and thus Kwazydog's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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