aka_tom_w Posted March 2, 2001 Share Posted March 2, 2001 OK Here's an idea. As a old wargamer who Played Avalon Hill's Tobruk (still have the box and the rules) in my teens, I am keenly interested in the Desert Campaign version of this GREAT game. (I am thrilled with CMBO the way it is as well of course) I admire the efforts put into the Desert Fox mods being worked on currently. BUT how about this, would it be possible for BTS to code into CM2 some of the data needed for desert and sand terrain? THINK about it.... Many of the vehicles units and weapons from the period of the Eastern Front "could" be the same units vehicles and weapons found in the Desert. SO how about this.... BTS just give us some data for the terrain features we need for Africa (sand, Desert, beach, what else?) and the diligent moders here will have the Desert campaign complete with historically accurate units (except the early war British AVF's I guess) in NO time! But what about those lend lease Lee's with the 75 in the side turret Sponson? For the Russians? PERFECT for the British Grant in the Desert NO? There are plenty other eras for BTS to work on, but if they could just "give away" and code some desert like terrain features into CM2's terrain tiles, I'm sure we could all modify the rest of the game to recreate the battles in the Desert campaign MUCH more accurately from data and units likly to be in CM2. (Please ) Any other thoughts? -tom w Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abteilung Posted March 2, 2001 Share Posted March 2, 2001 Originally posted by aka_tom_w There are plenty other eras for BTS to work on, but if they could just "give away" and code some desert like terrain features into CM2's terrain tiles, I'm sure we could all modify the rest of the game to recreate the battles in the Desert campaign MUCH more accurately from data and units likly to be in CM2. Correct, and this would free up invaluable coding time to dedicate to advancing the engine, graphics, and such things instead of content. There will never be enough time to create the content to satisfy everybody, why not open the door. Great Idea aka_tom_w! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pascal DI FOLCO Posted March 2, 2001 Share Posted March 2, 2001 I heartily agree ! And BTS doesn't even have to put the terrain bmps in CM2, only to incorporate them in the engine and editor - modders from DFDR will happily contribute the bmps - they've already done them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeT Posted March 2, 2001 Share Posted March 2, 2001 Pascal is right, if BTS oks this idea then I would quickly send them the bmps we have created for the desert. The interesting thing about this desert idea is that Russian in many ways has deserts in it. The steppes are flat grasslands nearly desert like in nature. It wouldn't take much to add/alter to fit a desert environment. What I would love to see happen is that CM2 would allow the importation of vehicles from CMBO. This would greatly open up many new battles and possibilities. In fact I have been thinking what subtle changes in CM2 would open up what types of new battles for the modders. MikeT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clubfoot Posted March 3, 2001 Share Posted March 3, 2001 That does sound good and it would be convenient for us. But you must realize this idea impinges upon future planned releases from BTS. They already plan to do early war Africa, but in CM3 or 4 I believe, not CM2. Although the inclusions you mention would add new dimension to CM2, it is in fact probably enough new dimension to warrant it's own release. Probably not prudent from the revenue conscious angle of anyone owning and operating a small business. All that said, I have to admit that personally I would love to see the features you mention included. Clubfoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted March 3, 2001 Share Posted March 3, 2001 Well, here's a plan. Just wait until CM3. After CM2 is complete, we'll have all the necessary German vehicles. It's just a matter of repainting them which of course is no big deal now. Honestly, I believe that once CM2 is done, the next two sequals will come pretty fast as there won't be as many additional units to make. In fact, I would be perfectly happy if BTS keeps the same basic look of the units (polygon counts and such) through the entire series until CMII. Then by then they will be able to code up some higher poly models and textures. I wouldn't change a thing about the engine up through CM4 besides a few enhancements and features such as city fighting. I think we need to keep CM1 thru CM4 pretty much the same. So we don't suddenly outdate older versions. I mean as succesful as the game is, why fix what isn't broke? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Commissar Posted March 3, 2001 Share Posted March 3, 2001 I agree with Maximus. Just do some nicer textures, frshen up the old ones some, and add required rule sets. Engine can pretty much remain the same. AND we can have CMII sooner! YaY! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karch Posted March 3, 2001 Share Posted March 3, 2001 I like the idea... except that I was under the impression that the Grant/Lee would not be included in CM2 because the current engine does not support multiple MAIN guns. Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumply Posted March 3, 2001 Share Posted March 3, 2001 good luck. bts is in business, after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_tom_w Posted March 3, 2001 Author Share Posted March 3, 2001 OK Sure they are in business... But I mentioned this so that The Desert campaign, (if the necesary data regarding movement and concealment, was coded into some desert sand tile) could be a build your own effort by our own community here, so that BTS could MAKE even more money by moving on to CM II the complete rewrite of the game engine sooner. I completely appreciate that these are LARGE high end strategic business descions, but I base my suggestion on the work already being done on the Desert Campaign now except for a some early war vehicles and cover and concelament and movement data values for some terrain tiles in that threater of the war, the people doing the modifcations to the textures for this era have done a REMARKABLE job! So I was just thinking, that there would already be early war vehicles in CM2 and some "desert like" terrain in Russia, so it might be easier to do more with the Desert Campaign when CM2 comes out. So Why not give us the tools we need to let the communnity at large here loose on the Desert Campaign so the BTS can work on other Era's or releases or move on more quickly to CM II. I suggest this because if development on CM II starts in 18 - 24 months and if takes some period time (6-12 months??) to complete, we should be able to look forward to COOL new features and graphics to take advantage of new technology and hardware that I would say will likly be TWO whole generations of technology ahead of where we are now. (e.i. two 18 month technology advancement cycles). This is suggesting that the minimum hardware specs they target for CM II should be those hardware specs that are expected to be the mid range of the consumer level computer 3 years from now, which is clearly three years more advanced than the average consumer computer now. So here is the motivation. To suggest to BTS to consider the possibility starting development on CM II within 18-24 months so that we can see the release of a NEW generation of wargame that would include the HUGE advance of relative spotting within 36 months. I say this because it would not surprise me to learn that some completing developer will attempt to "one up" BTS and the Combat Mission series with the inclusion of GREAT new features like relative spotting within three years. So why not leave the desert campaign OUT of the development cycle and just give away a few extra vehicles and data for terrain tiles in CM2 and then move on to the Early War years in France and then the NEXT big thing, move on to CM II develpoment. (Now they can all laugh at me and tell me to sit down and shut up! ) Its just a suggestion, motivated by a strong desire to SEE relative spotting and CM II developed as soon as possible. Thanks for all your replies, I'm glad some here see this as a welcome (though clearly unlikly) idea. We now return you to your regularily scheduled Peng ™ Thread reading time... -tom w [This message has been edited by aka_tom_w (edited 03-03-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_tom_w Posted March 6, 2001 Author Share Posted March 6, 2001 Bump Look at that great screen shot from DFDR! Still hoping BTS will help us out in CM2 with cover and concealment data for some desert terrain tiles. -tom w Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_tom_w Posted March 12, 2001 Author Share Posted March 12, 2001 ok ok I guess now shameless bumps makes this thread look like a one man crusade. oh well -tom w Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Michael emrys Posted March 12, 2001 Share Posted March 12, 2001 One thing I don't understand: Sure CM2 will have most of the German units necessary to play Desert War, but what about the British/Commonwealth and Italian units? Yes, you can import a few British units from CM1, but by no means all that you would need (such as the 2pdr. AT gun and virtually all the armor). And there's nowhere at present where you can get all the Italian units. CM2 might have some, but not all the weapons found in the desert made it to the East Front and vice versa. This looks to me to be far too big of a stumbling block for this idea to ever get anywhere interesting. Sorry to rain on anybody's parade, but until those objections are satisfactorily met, this one looks like a sure loser to me. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_tom_w Posted March 12, 2001 Author Share Posted March 12, 2001 Originally posted by Michael emrys: One thing I don't understand: Sure CM2 will have most of the German units necessary to play Desert War, but what about the British/Commonwealth and Italian units? Yes, you can import a few British units from CM1, but by no means all that you would need (such as the 2pdr. AT gun and virtually all the armor). And there's nowhere at present where you can get all the Italian units. CM2 might have some, but not all the weapons found in the desert made it to the East Front and vice versa. This looks to me to be far too big of a stumbling block for this idea to ever get anywhere interesting. Sorry to rain on anybody's parade, but until those objections are satisfactorily met, this one looks like a sure loser to me. Michael well you are correct. I can't argue with your logic there.The earlier war British units are a problem. But I would like to add they there trying to make the conversion anyway with all the CMBO units, as unsatifactory as that might be. I was just suggesting that another attempt using CM2 might be more rewarding if there was a real "desert" tile, thats all. -tom w Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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