Kanonier Reichmann Posted November 5, 2001 Share Posted November 5, 2001 This is from an earlier thread that was buried. Originally posted by Moriarty: If the HT's crew is two people and the gunner gets whacked, the vehicle will still move around, tow guns, ferry squads, etc., but there'll be no one to pull the trigger on the MG. This posting raises an interesting question. Why is it with a MG Bren Gun Carrier it can't still fire its MG after suffering a single crew casualty? There are still 2 crew members left and although I would imagine the effectiveness of the MG should be degraded without the loader, for some reason the damn thing can't fire at all. Surely it doesn't take 2 people to drive that damn halftrack wannabe. Does anybody know the answer to this one or perhaps heard a reply from BTS on how MG Bren Gun carriers (as opposed to the personnel carrying variety) are modelled? Regards Jim R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted November 5, 2001 Share Posted November 5, 2001 As discussed, I thought the MMG was located in the rear compartment of the MMG carrier - the third crewman was in the back operating this gun, the other two - driver and commander - were in the front compartment without access to the gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted November 5, 2001 Share Posted November 5, 2001 A similar question arises with regard to the M3 halftrack. It has a three man crew and a single .30 cal. MG. If it suffers a single casualty, the MG ceases to be operable. I don't know enough about this vehicle or the particular way in which its MG was operated, so I can't comment on whether or not this constitutes realistic modeling. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanonier Reichmann Posted November 5, 2001 Author Share Posted November 5, 2001 I don't think that's the answer Michael (Dorosch that is) as the MG Carrier cannot fire if it's hull down to another target (you get the MG blocked message) so that would tend to indicate that the MG is located in the bow at the front. I'm also assuming that the commander assists with feeding the MG but that is purely guesswork on my part. Regards Jim R. [ 11-04-2001: Message edited by: Kanonier Reichmann ]</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capitalistdoginchina Posted November 5, 2001 Share Posted November 5, 2001 The Wasp Flame Carrier is also modelled the same, hull down it cannot fire, one crew member down and it also cannot fire. CDIC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow 1st Hussars Posted November 5, 2001 Share Posted November 5, 2001 The Bren on a Bren Carrier IRL is located in the rear compartment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Fox Posted November 5, 2001 Share Posted November 5, 2001 Well Michael is correct that the MMG was typically mounted in the rear compartment, but in real life in NWE rather than in CMBO. Unfortunately the CMBO version is based on the Aussie version where the MMG was mounted in the commanders position. A MMG carrier in real life was no more than a Vickers MMG crew equipped with a carrier. I would think they would have had a few more crew than 3. The gun would have at least had a number two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Fox Posted November 5, 2001 Share Posted November 5, 2001 <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Shadow 1st Hussars: The Bren on a Bren Carrier IRL is located in the rear compartment.<hr></blockquote>Actually that is incorrect. Generally speaking the Bren was operated by the vehicle commander from his postion firing through the port. Of course there were plenty of modifications and in the desert at least they were festooned with all sorts of things. I have seen a picture of one with 3 MGs on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted November 5, 2001 Share Posted November 5, 2001 <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Michael emrys: A similar question arises with regard to the M3 halftrack. It has a three man crew and a single .30 cal. MG. If it suffers a single casualty, the MG ceases to be operable. I don't know enough about this vehicle or the particular way in which its MG was operated, so I can't comment on whether or not this constitutes realistic modeling. Michael<hr></blockquote> I haven't tried this yet, but last time we discussed this, someone said that if you have a US HT that is one crewman down, you can indeed fire the .30 by UNBUTTONING and then you can use it. I guess the first crew casualty makes the crew button. Like I said, haven't tried it yet but dimly remember someone saying something like this? Simon is, of course, correct re: all his comments on Universal carriers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted November 5, 2001 Share Posted November 5, 2001 <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: I haven't tried this yet, but last time we discussed this, someone said that if you have a US HT that is one crewman down, you can indeed fire the .30 by UNBUTTONING and then you can use it. I guess the first crew casualty makes the crew button.<hr></blockquote> Nope. 'Fraid not. Had this come up in a game just yesterday. Once it's buttoned it stays buttoned if it's shocked. At least if it's regular. Maybe an elite crew would overcome their shock and unbutton. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted November 5, 2001 Share Posted November 5, 2001 it depends on the model of US halftrack. The M3 won't, the M3A1 might, and IIRC the M5 does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanonier Reichmann Posted November 5, 2001 Author Share Posted November 5, 2001 <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by JonS: it depends on the model of US halftrack. The M3 won't, the M3A1 might, and IIRC the M5 does.<hr></blockquote> OK, so does anybody know the logic behind this? How is one model of the US halftrack able to continue firing with the loss of a crew member while another one can't. And just for your own interest, the MG Carrier that was the initial topic of this thread also can't unbutton to fire its medium MG once taking a crew casualty. I just tried it in my game and it's pretty much useless despite it being a veteran carrier, with no option to unbutton. Regards Jim R. [ 11-05-2001: Message edited by: Kanonier Reichmann ]</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted November 5, 2001 Share Posted November 5, 2001 <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Kanonier Reichmann: How is one model of the US halftrack able to continue firing with the loss of a crew member while another one can't.<hr></blockquote> Hmmm. I am beginning to suspect that BTS' assumption was that with a crew casualty the MG itself was inevitably damaged. I suppose this assmption is consistent with the idea that the MG operator would be the most exposed crew member. But I am not sure how all this hangs together logically. I can well imagine a penetrating hit into the driving compartment that wounds one person there, but leaves the MG untouched. [shrug] Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
massimorocca Posted November 5, 2001 Share Posted November 5, 2001 I've noticed the same strange behavior in the Badger. when one of the crew was injured and vehicle is schoked the flamethrower never returned operative Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Hofbauer Posted November 6, 2001 Share Posted November 6, 2001 I think it is because of the same reason that buttoned (incl. tanks that lost a crewmember and therefore remain buttoned) tanks can't use their flexible/AA MGs. for some reason CMBO handles both the bren's Bren and the HT's MG just like one of those flexible MGs mounted outside tanks. the reason why the Bren MG carrier gets a "hull down - can't fire MG" message might be because it doesn't have a turret. in conclusio, CMBO's Bren MG carrier sugffers from an unfortunate combination of hull machinegun in terms of hull down usage restriction and flexible MG characteristics in terms of needing exposed crewmen to operate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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