Shatter Posted August 19, 2001 Share Posted August 19, 2001 Ok, here goes I have made loads of scenarios for CM,(over a hundred in my scnario folder, some DFDR). Just wanted to explain this to show I am very familar with scenario designing. The last few scenarios I have done have been rather large in map size as well as forces. My problem is that while testing these large battles, on the 1st and 2nd sometimes 3rd turn, units are retreating of the map before any fighting has started. So just to make sure this is what is happing, I turned the fog of war off to see were these units were going. Sure enough, 2 platoons of Brits ran right of the map (on turn 1 and another platoon on turn 2, while the rest of the platoons continued on to engage the opposition. The force size is a British Battalion and another understrength British Battalion. This scenario was scapped and was probably the 3rd time I have run into this. I checked the scenario parameters, everything was correct. So I thought maybe CM modeled cowards or something. Not to say that British are cowards. So tonight I am working on making a larger version of Valley of Trouble. I increased the map size a little, but not much. I change no flags no parameters, nothing but the map size and forces available. US I added 2 M1 Sherms, an additional understrength Company as well as another Engineer platoon. Nothing on the reinforcment. Germans I added 1 50mm Pak38 AT gun, 1 SPW 251/1 HT, 1 Pillbox MG, 1 platoon. So I start the game up to test it, no contact on first turn, but US goes down to 94%. So I say what the F%. I then turn the fog of war off, sure enough again, both platoons of Engineers run right off the map on turn one. So what is going on??? Anyone got any ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbaro Posted August 19, 2001 Share Posted August 19, 2001 bimp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shatter Posted August 20, 2001 Author Share Posted August 20, 2001 Bobbaro you have the same problem??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derfel Posted August 20, 2001 Share Posted August 20, 2001 Hmmm very weird behaviour to be sure.... I've had exactly the reverse problem. In some of my scenarios the defending units won't sit still in their prepared positions but would immediately go "over the top" and rush out in the open to be cut down by the advancing enemy units... I've suggested a "Sit the hell still" command to be added at the scenario editing stage but so far no word on it's inclusion in CM:BB. All I can suggest is that the "Exit" edge of the map might have something to do with it... which isn't all that helpful... what was the status of the units that scampered off? (Green, Regular etc) -Derfel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shatter Posted August 20, 2001 Author Share Posted August 20, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Derfel: All I can suggest is that the "Exit" edge of the map might have something to do with it... which isn't all that helpful... what was the status of the units that scampered off? (Green, Regular etc) -Derfel<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> --------------------------------------------- The 2 engineer platoons that ran off before any contact were, 1 Reg platoon, 1 Vet platoon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Leader Posted August 20, 2001 Share Posted August 20, 2001 Could it have something to do with no flags? Without flags in a scenario, the computer would have no objectives, so might just say "f*ck it" and leave. As for the defender, if they were placed in the editor, but the AI moved them on turn 1, it must be because "Use scenario default" was set, but the AI felt it wasn't close enough to the flags to defend them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derfel Posted August 20, 2001 Share Posted August 20, 2001 Shatter; it just gets weirder, doesn't it... I'll try something similar and see what results I get... BTW has this happened in any other scen? PL: Nope, that ain't it, I tried placing the units right on top of the VL and the little b*stards took off AWAY from the flags to get at the enemy... Curioser and curioser, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russellmz Posted August 20, 2001 Share Posted August 20, 2001 at the least, try reversing the friendly map edges. maybe they will appear massively agressive instead of running off the map. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted August 20, 2001 Share Posted August 20, 2001 Regarding the question about units leaving their prepared positions, this absolutely has to do with victory flag placement. If the AI detects that a flag is not well protected it will attempt to reposition its troops to remedy the situation. Be sure to place flags behind your main line of resistance with several units nearby to secure the flag. Try experimenting with different flag placements and you will be suprised at what the AI will do. It really is a black art. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derfel Posted August 20, 2001 Share Posted August 20, 2001 Keith: Nope, it isn't that easy, believe me. I've tried with flags in front, behind, no flags and practically covered the entire vl with defending troops but the little bleeders will still leave their positions to engage the enemy... I'm still hoping for that "Lie low until fired upon" command in CM:BB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfish Posted August 20, 2001 Share Posted August 20, 2001 Just curious, do any of these units start off in a modified state (Pinned, shaken, weary, etc)? Were they out of C&C? Were they given any orders during those turns? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shatter Posted August 20, 2001 Author Share Posted August 20, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Panzer Leader: Could it have something to do with no flags? Without flags in a scenario, the computer would have no objectives, so might just say "f*ck it" and leave. As for the defender, if they were placed in the editor, but the AI moved them on turn 1, it must be because "Use scenario default" was set, but the AI felt it wasn't close enough to the flags to defend them.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> --------------------------------------------- Panzer Leader, thanks for the input. Yes I do have flags in the scenario. This only occurs when I set up an Attack, and the attacking force is what is running of the map on the first turns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derfel Posted August 21, 2001 Share Posted August 21, 2001 Kingfish: If you're asking me; I just placed the troops intending them to defend various parts of a perimeter, no modified states and all were in C&C. The scenario was meant to be an Axis assault on an allied position defended in depth where the A.I would handle the defense and the human p´layer the assault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shatter Posted August 21, 2001 Author Share Posted August 21, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Derfel: Shatter; it just gets weirder, doesn't it... I'll try something similar and see what results I get... BTW has this happened in any other scen? PL: Nope, that ain't it, I tried placing the units right on top of the VL and the little b*stards took off AWAY from the flags to get at the enemy... Curioser and curioser, no?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> --------------------------------------------- Yes this has occured in several scenarios I have made. I am not using VL flags. When I get home from school tonight, if you want I will send 2 of the battles I am referring to so you can check them out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shatter Posted August 21, 2001 Author Share Posted August 21, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by russellmz: at the least, try reversing the friendly map edges. maybe they will appear massively agressive instead of running off the map.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> --------------------------------------------- Ya this a possability, but I have done this before, and its kinda strange to have retreating forces retreating in the direction of the oposing forces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shatter Posted August 21, 2001 Author Share Posted August 21, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kingfish: Just curious, do any of these units start off in a modified state (Pinned, shaken, weary, etc)? Were they out of C&C? Were they given any orders during those turns?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> --------------------------------------------- No all are OK. Thats why I can't figure it out. When I get home from school tonight I will send to anyone who wants to take a look. Side note, 2 more weeks of College and I got a degree. THANK GOD! Just thought of something, I will try locking them in place so they have C&C, because when the AI places the units they are not in C&C. Also only the Squads of 2 platoons run of the map while the 2 Hq continue on to fight. [ 08-20-2001: Message edited by: Shatter ] [ 08-21-2001: Message edited by: Shatter ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted August 21, 2001 Share Posted August 21, 2001 Derfel, if the AI determines that the enemy is too close too the victory flags it may try to counter attack. Try placing the flags deeper behind your line with some additional units protecting the flags.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shatter Posted August 21, 2001 Author Share Posted August 21, 2001 Well guys I just the locked the 2 Engineer platoons with their HQ, so that they would have C&C and they did not run off the map. I tested it 10 times and all 10 times they stay on the map. I guess it was just the wacky AI and the way it places units. Thanks for the input Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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