Annoying little things in CMBO

[ASL Veteran]

Ya know, there is this one little annoying thing in CMBO that really just frustrates me to no end. For anyone who reads this and assumes that I am referring to the "abstract representation" of the little pixelated soldiers, let me disabuse you of that notion in advance. Situation: My troops are hiding in ambush, waiting for the enemy to get within striking distance. Enemy gets within sight, but does not detect my boys yet. I decide to sneak or crawl a meter or five to adjust my position or get a better angle without opening up the engagement. What happens? The troops stand up and blaze away - then get down and crawl or sneak to their new position!! :mad: It seems that there is no possible way to move without firing if the enemy is within range.

Situation: my boys are hiding behind a wall after encountering the enemy (which prevents them from getting shot at 0% exposure). I want to move them from behind the wall to a nearby building so I would like them to crawl from their position behind the wall to the building (thus preventing the enemy from firing at them while they crawl behind the wall). What happens? They stand up and blaze away!! :mad: It is impossible to go from the hide position to crawling without standing up and taking fire first!!

I just felt like getting that off my chest Somebody fix or do somefink!!!

[ 09-09-2001: Message edited by: ASL Veteran ]

[lcm1947]

yeah that sucks. Would it be better to try to sneak to the desired position rather then crawl do you suppose. I don't know so this is actually a question I suppose. But maybe it would.

[lcm1947]

Sorry I see you stated that you either crawled or sneaked to a position. Sneaked? is that a word? :confused: Anyway, which did you do? Maybe that's the key. Which is better to avoid being detected? Hopefully someone knows.

[Guest PondScum]

What happens if, before moving them, you first have all your troops target an ambush marker well behind your lines? You'd still get the "stand up for 20 seconds like an idiot while I get my orders" effect, but possibly not the "oh, and if I see anyone while standing up I'll shoot at them" problem...

[David Aitken]

lcm, it's nothing to do with the command. Whatever order you give, until the command delay is over and the unit starts moving, it does what the hell it likes. Therefore if it was hiding, before the 'crawl' order comes into effect it will sit up and fire at will, and then get back down and crawl after 8 or 13 seconds or whatever.

[M Hofbauer]

It's a fault in the system. To give them a movement order, even sneak, you have to cancel the "hide" state. Once they execute the sneak order, they *will* sneak. However, there is a considerable time delay between issuing the order (and thereby unhiding them) and the execution thereof. This results in the annoying situations you describe. I agree with your frustration and experienced it myself.

A solution would be to have hiding units hide until the *execution* of an order commences. Makes sense to me.

[lcm1947]

Ok, got you David but which is better to stay undetected before you are spotted sneak or crawl? Do you know by chance? And which would be better to use after being spotted and say you want to get out of there because every body and their mother is shooting at you? I would think crawl would be because I would think you'd want to stay low to the ground but that's using common sense and may not be correct in the game.

[Andrew H.]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by M Hofbauer:

It's a fault in the system. To give them a movement order, even sneak, you have to cancel the "hide" state. Once they execute the sneak order, they *will* sneak. However, there is a considerable time delay between issuing the order (and thereby unhiding them) and the execution thereof. This results in the annoying situations you describe. I agree with your frustration and experienced it myself.

A solution would be to have hiding units hide until the *execution* of an order commences. Makes sense to me.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't think that the way CM models it now is exactly right, but I'm not sure keeping the men hidden until the execution of the order would be exactly right, either.

Think of what's really happening: you have 10 men scattered over a, say, 15 meter area, hiding from enemy units that are very close. You want these men to move to a new location. Well, the squad leader has to tell (signal, whatever) the men to move, and he can't do it telepathically. It's possible, I suppose, that all men are hidden in such a manner that they have LOS to the squad leader and could therefore see what he wants them to do and carry out the orders right away. But that's not necessarily the case.

So I would suggest that the most realistic solution would be for there to be a *chance* that the men stay hidden until they execute their new orders, and a *chance* that they stop hiding (which would actually simulate them realizing that they are about to be discovered due to their trying to disengage.

I suppose the chance of them unhiding should depend on the terrain they're in (it's easier to coordinate when the men are hidden in a building or behind a wall then it would be if they are concealed in trees), their experience level, and perhaps the closeness of the enemy units.

[Edit] Oh, also very important, being in C&C and the leader's stealthiness rating. Being able to disengage while staying hidden seems like exactly the kind of thing that the stealthiness rating should affect.

[ 09-09-2001: Message edited by: Andrew Hedges ]

[Xavier]

Good point Andrew !

(I also agree with your sig )

[M Hofbauer]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Andrew Hedges:

It's possible, I suppose, that all men are hidden in such a manner that they have LOS to the squad leader and could therefore see what he wants them to do and carry out the orders right away. But that's not necessarily the case.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I would take your first sentence further and suggest that this would be the default.

When you as the squad/platoon leader put your squad into hiding state, you provide for the fact that you will not stay hidden there forever until the end of time. You will provide for a limited variety of actions ending the hidden nature of your squad.

Two regular choices will be to ambush or a secret withdrawal (in the face of an overwhelming enemy, movement to a better engagement location etc.). You will make sure that your order to commit to either one of the actions will be transferred upon the rest of the squad via some means. To remain hidden, you have to provide for LOS between individual members of the squad (not of the leader to everybody) so the signal will be passed along. Whispering might also be possible, or special sounds (bird call) whose meaning has been agreed upon beforehand.

Granted that sometimes this is not possible. But usually you would attempt to make it possible when setting up.

Agree with your notion that it is dependant on concrete circumstances / terrain features etc.