Stalins Organ Posted April 30, 2001 Share Posted April 30, 2001 Does anyone know if CM has thought of using a 2-value troop quality rating system? What I am thinking of is a value for the training/experience, and another for morale/motivation. So for example some VG units might be quiet well motivated and be rated as "Keen", but still poorly trained so "Green", while over-fought Brits in 1945 might be "veteran/reluctant" (or similar). The morale rating would be used to adjudge anythnig to do with morale (when they break, rallying, etc), while the training value would be used to detemine reactions (eg vets more likely to seek cover under fire?), speed of reloading and other "technical" aspects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted April 30, 2001 Share Posted April 30, 2001 Sounds reasonable. I would hope BTS would find the time to consider it. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olle Petersson Posted April 30, 2001 Share Posted April 30, 2001 It's nice to have, but it works fairly well as it is. Those of lower quality but high morale can be set to "fanatic". What you can't have is high quality troops with low morale. Cheers Olle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terence Posted April 30, 2001 Share Posted April 30, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Olle Petersson: It's nice to have, but it works fairly well as it is. Those of lower quality but high morale can be set to "fanatic". What you can't have is high quality troops with low morale. Cheers Olle<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> maybe high quality troops with low morale aren't. high quality, that is... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stalin's Organ Posted April 30, 2001 Share Posted April 30, 2001 My impressoin of some of the battle-weary Brits in late 44/45 is that htey are exactly high quality (training & experience)/low morale. I asked this because a new set of figure-gaming rules being playtested now uses it and it works pretty well for them IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunnee Posted May 1, 2001 Share Posted May 1, 2001 I would think a vet that's seen a lot of action may not be perky like your morning java, but he knows what he's doing more so than a highly motivated, raw recruit. Daily occurences in combat would be common to a "low motivation" vet, as a "highly motivated" recruit still pisses his pants when that first 155mm round lands in his position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
istari Posted May 1, 2001 Share Posted May 1, 2001 I don't know if this makes me an old timer here, but the Steel Panther series modelled troop quality this way, with separate values for Experience and Morale. It seemed to work extremely well, even better than CMBO. I'll never forget playing Steel Panthers I,leading a German Kampfgruppe against the Soviets, and seeing firsthand the effect of shoddy training (4 out of 5 Soviet shots would miss), while their morale forced me to wade in there and defeat them close-up rather than breaking and running as the French had done in an earlier SP campaign. Yes, low quality + Fanatic might cover this in Combat MIssion, but there are situations where the other hold true as well. I remember playing "Germany: 1980" in Steel Panthers II. The American troops were quite well-trained, but morale was so-so, and this had a real impact on how you handled them. My 0.02. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stalin's Organ Posted May 1, 2001 Share Posted May 1, 2001 Well if playing Steel Panthers makes one an old timer I'd better get out my Zimmer Frame!! I'd forgotten about that actually, but you're right of course. Dunnee I'm not sure I get your point. A vet might be more likely to piss himself because he may have experience with what's going to come next, whereas a gung-ho recruit might hit hte dirt, not hear anything else so get up and be caught by the FFE barrage after the first couple of ranging shots. I'd like to separate the effects along those lines - the keen recruits would probably take a lot more casualties before going to ground for example - they might get closer and then be unable to retire. The worst possible combo would, of course, be an unenthusiastic militia - incompetant and terrified, while a keen veteran might be a very formidable foe indeed - knows when and where to take cover, is harder to pin, takes fewer casualties, shoots back, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Fox Posted May 1, 2001 Share Posted May 1, 2001 Dear Mike, The answer to your question is a resounding yes. They have considered it and I beleive that they will try to implement it in some future incarnation of CM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olle Petersson Posted May 2, 2001 Share Posted May 2, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Stalin's Organ: I asked this because a new set of figure-gaming rules being playtested now uses it and it works pretty well for them IMO<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Which rule set is this? Command Decision has had it from the start 20 years ago or something... Cheers Olle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Leader Posted May 2, 2001 Share Posted May 2, 2001 Simon, Do you happen to know when they said this, who said it, or in which thread it was said? Thanx! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Fox Posted May 3, 2001 Share Posted May 3, 2001 The answer to your question is no, can't remember details. Do a search Well Steve said it, it wouldn't be the chromedome or the scurvydog 'cos I never pay attention to what they say about the game [ 05-03-2001: Message edited by: Simon Fox ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stalin's Organ Posted May 3, 2001 Share Posted May 3, 2001 Thanks Simon. Olle - sorry - I forgot to look it up today at work - hopefully I'll remember tomorrow. It's being produced by Battlefront Games, who make a range of excellent 15mm WW2 figures and models from Auckland, New Zealand. I never played Command Decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stalins Organ Posted May 3, 2001 Author Share Posted May 3, 2001 Olle the rules are "Flames of War", they're available as a .pdf file from www.FlamesOfWar.com together with sme supporting stuff, are 1:1 scale and being publically playtested. In fact they're so keen on playtesting that they're offering a random draw proze of a trip to Historicon from the reports submitted to them - which is a pretty big deal from New Zealand!! [ 05-03-2001: Message edited by: Mike the bike ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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