HeinzBaby Posted January 25, 2004 Share Posted January 25, 2004 Just finished 'Flak-Front' with a minor vic as DAK, A couple of observation came to mind whilst playing this out.. Spoiler The long range killing effects [1000m+] were largely offset by dust/smoke [low hits] and wasting good ammo in the process...LR optics can spot but hits? poor. Change of tactics slapping covered arcs [700m] with 'Hide' commands enforced at the start of each turn produced results, the 'sweet spot' I found was from 450m @70% kill - 665m @ 50%. Even with this enforced hide with arcs I found my Flaks targeting AFV's outside their arcs out to 1000m+. I presumed the ROF is an in game abstraction of RL, everything I've read about the 88 stated a high 20rpm ROF, my gunners were lucky to pop off 2 or 3, come to think about it watching my PAK38 was painful to watch too. So I end my pondering/talking out of my a$$, I always thought the 88 was a standoff weapon, thou with all Anti-Tank Guns in CM, you have to let armor get real close to kill, and bugger the HE & Mg hence always re-hide. ...Almost forgot, Infantry and soft vehicles in the desert,..you have to become a Grand Master of the reverse slope t'was a grand senario too 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dugfromthearth Posted January 25, 2004 Share Posted January 25, 2004 88 has a big advantage that it is much harder to spot then a tank. sso at very long ranges it may not kill with the first shot, but the tank probably won't even have a target to shoot back at. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted January 25, 2004 Share Posted January 25, 2004 Originally posted by HeinzBaby: everything I've read about the 88 stated a high 20rpm ROFI find this claim interesting, as I have served in a recoilless rifle crew. 20 rpm = one shot every five seconds! That would not leave any time for actual corrections of aiming between shots, hardly even enough time for reloading the gun. While it may be possible, I think it would have to refer to AA usage of the cannon - when you're firing up into the sky, all you try to do is create a barrage of shrapnell, not to achieve direct hits, so the aim wouldn't be so exact. Even then I don't think that could be a sustained ROF, as the loaders would get exhausted pretty quickly. IMHO, anyway. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted January 25, 2004 Share Posted January 25, 2004 Originally posted by dugfromthearth: so at very long ranges it may not kill with the first shot, but the tank probably won't even have a target to shoot back at. Unless a dust cloud is kicked up... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeinzBaby Posted January 26, 2004 Author Share Posted January 26, 2004 From Sergei; I find this claim interesting, as I have served in a recoilless rifle crew. 20 rpm = one shot every five seconds! That would not leave any time for actual corrections of aiming between shots, hardly even enough time for reloading the gun. The 20 rpm ref came from Maj. Mackey's 'Afrika Korps' Regarding the dust and near misses with in coming AT fire, I noticed the TacAI would pull the armour back through the dust and go to overwatch. This was my reasoning for always placing 'hide' [fire discipline] commands on the 88's. The Grants and Honey's know something is out there on the horizon but what?, from their point of view they'd be sighting a 'last seen' or generic AT. Eventually, the armour would start rolling forwards into the clear, only to be met with another salvo. With time on my side, it was like clubbing baby seals I found this senario a great learning curve, just AT with a smattering of Infantry. I may even replay it [rare for me] with some other ideas. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joachim Posted January 26, 2004 Share Posted January 26, 2004 Originally posted by Sergei: I find this claim interesting, as I have served in a recoilless rifle crew. 20 rpm = one shot every five seconds! That's why I don't believe in Finnish data. Gruß Joachim 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted January 26, 2004 Share Posted January 26, 2004 And those are the same Finns who always lead in the PISA studies. Snigger. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted January 26, 2004 Share Posted January 26, 2004 Why, haven't all EU countries moved on to have 100 seconds in a minute? Gee, you Germans are so 20th century!!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joachim Posted January 26, 2004 Share Posted January 26, 2004 Now we know why - they have 66% more time to complete the tests! Gruß Joachim Der Tag hat 24 Stunden - und wenn das nicht reicht, kommt noch die Nacht hinzu! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWB Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 Hehe. Originally, that scenario WAS a long range test for 88s, though the release version ended up being far different. In that engagement, where the 88s were hastily deployed in the open desert with no time for ranging, they held fire until inside 1000m. I think that, if given more time for deployment and such, they would probably have the quivalent of CM TRPs. The hard part about hitting distant targets in those times was not windage or angle but range, so finding range to a few key known points--like the ridgeline 2000m in front of you, would be very worthwhile. The other issue is that once they range in something, they should remembmer it presuming they dont move. Gunter the gunner does not forget that the sherman he blew up was 1400m or so away after he blows up another at 2000m. Rather he remembers it when another pops up near there. The way CM behaves is to treat that as an entirely new shoot. So bottom line is that CM does not handle the 88 well, at least not at extreme ranges, without TRPs. WWB 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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