pktaske Posted January 6, 2001 Share Posted January 6, 2001 Last few times I was there (1998), I still noticed the KTiger was still missing. Does anyone know where it went and/or if it's ever coming back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karch Posted January 6, 2001 Share Posted January 6, 2001 I think you are mistaken, the Patton museum at Fort Knox (I belive) has a King Tiger. Aberdeed used to have a Tiger I. It was loaned to Germany... and Germany decided that it was theirs and were not going to return it. An unnammed American with German political contacts, contacted Aberdeen and made an agreement that if he could get back the Tiger to America, that he would be able to keep it and FULLY RESTORE it at his expense... for 2 years. Then being returned to the Aberdeen Proving Grounds for inside display. This should be completed sometime in the next 5 years and we will be able to see the Tiger I again. I took a trip this summer to the Proving gounds and took about 3000 pictures and am trying to get them all organized. I have lots of Quicktime VR panoramas of the grounds, and Quicktime VR objects of certain tanks and guns. If you want to see a little of it.. please go to http://www.karchfamily.com/aberdeen/ to see a couple objects and VRs I showed the Proving grounds. karch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. Bates Posted January 6, 2001 Share Posted January 6, 2001 I read somewhere that the standards at Aberdeen are shoddy - is it really true that they keep WW2 machines outside?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karch Posted January 6, 2001 Share Posted January 6, 2001 yes, they are all outside rusting... although it takes a long time to rust through inches of steel! Most of the smaller metal fittings and ammo boxes are all rusted and falling off. They have a planned expansion of the building to contain almost ALL of the existing tanks. This will take years, but they have started a huge refurbishment project where they pull one tank off the field, refurb it and store it inside until the huge building is done. One benefit of the current situation, is that you can walk all around the vehicles, even crawl under and on top of them. In the museum, they will be crammed in side by side so you will never be able to see them in profile. You just couldn't build a big enough building to do that. Right now all the US tanks are not on the field with non US tanks, they are along the median of a road into the base. Miles of tanks, one after another.... all rusting. They do have almost all the heavies. All the really heavy developmental tanks you see in books. Everything except the HUGE T-26 I think it was. I will make an effort to post a handful of the 3000 images I took this summer. Any specific tanks you want to see? karch (btw, I'd love a few more PBMs. My main opponent just joined the airforce and I only have 1 game going.) Any size game, any side, any type engagement. Will make best effort at keeping play and units historical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banshee Posted January 7, 2001 Share Posted January 7, 2001 Karch, Great objects and panorama's of aberdeen I enjoyed them a lot. ------------------ Veni, vidi, panzerschrecki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Napoleon1944 Posted January 7, 2001 Share Posted January 7, 2001 I talked to Dr. Atwater last year and I believe he said the Royal tiger went to Ft Knox and the Tiger I went to Germany. I think perhaps the Tiger I will be returned. Better someone else takes care of them then letting them rot outside. Some of these tanks are the only ones left in the world I would imagine ie Grasshopper tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sturmtiger101 Posted January 7, 2001 Share Posted January 7, 2001 Napoleon 1944 is right about the Tiger II, it was traded to the Patton Museum at Ft Knox , Kt. , for a prototype MBT-70. This was early '90s. The staff of the Patton Museum then did a pretty decent restification of the King, including a fairly accurate paint scheme & markings. The Tiger II now rest indoors and well protected from the elements. Toured the museum myself in Sept '99 and it was a very impressive exhibit among many other excellent displays. ------------------ " They're acting as if they have already won the war! " B. Woll " We will prove them wrong. " M. Whitman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sturmtiger101 Posted January 7, 2001 Share Posted January 7, 2001 BTW, for those interested, the Tiger II at Ft Knox was formerly of s/SS501, the corps heavy tank battalion of 1 SS PzKr. Vehicle # 332, it was captured intact in late Dec. of '44 after being abandoned near the Belgian town of Stavelot. The company it belonged to was operating as a part of Kampfgroupe Peiper, the spearhead of 1SS PzDiv LAH. ------------------ " They're acting as if they have already won the war! " B. Woll " We will prove them wrong. " M. Whitman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saru3000 Posted January 7, 2001 Share Posted January 7, 2001 Is Aberdeen planning on restoring them to their original paint scheme? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
:USERNAME: Posted January 7, 2001 Share Posted January 7, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by karch: One benefit of the current situation, is that you can walk all around the vehicles, even crawl under and on top of them. In the museum, they will be crammed in side by side so you will never be able to see them in profile. You just couldn't build a big enough building to do that. .<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Actually you cant crawl on and around them. A couple of poor GI's get the punishment detail of walking around that field and asking kids and bozos to climb down. They have to wear full gear including a helmet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwcanuck Posted January 7, 2001 Share Posted January 7, 2001 FYI the sad news is that Germany has no Tiger I anymore on its soil. The Panzermuseum in Munster sold its only Tiger I to a private consortium in England a few years ago. I am still baffled why they did it? Probably I think for the money to upkeep their remaining armour display which still have the orignal engines in many of them and kept in running condtion. RW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karch Posted January 7, 2001 Share Posted January 7, 2001 -------------------------- Actually you cant crawl on and around them. A couple of poor GI's get the punishment detail of walking around that field and asking kids and bozos to climb down. They have to wear full gear including a helmet. -------------------------- You're absolutely right. But while we were there for 3 days taking pictures of every tank and gun from every angle... very time consuming... people were climbing over all the tanks... crawling down the barrels and things like that. Very dangerous. You could really get hurt falling off a tank. Even falling from the turret to the decking could crack a skull. I'm pretty sure it was more for the safety of the people than for the tanks. The only soldiers I saw were staying inside the museum keeping cool. Even when the lawn crew came around and weed whipped around the tanks, they didn't say anything to the people. Not that it was right, but that's what people do there. I have to admit, I even broke the rules to get a few great pictures from on a couple tanks. I will get a few hundred pictures on my site later today. I'll post when they are up. scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sturmtiger101 Posted January 7, 2001 Share Posted January 7, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by rwcanuck: FYI the sad news is that Germany has no Tiger I anymore on its soil. The Panzermuseum in Munster sold its only Tiger I to a private consortium in England a few years ago. I am still baffled why they did it? Probably I think for the money to upkeep their remaining armour display which still have the orignal engines in many of them and kept in running condtion. RW<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> rwcanuck, actually, the Tiger I was not the Panzermuseum's to sell, but was the vehicle owned and kept at Aberdeen Proving Grounds, Md after its capture by US Army forces in Tunisia 1943. The Tiger was on a ten year loan to the Panzermuseum and in 1999 when the loan was up the museum refused to return the vehicle back to the U.S. Army, or to ship it back to the states as per the loan agreement. Problem was the Ordinance Museum at Aberdeen lacked funds to have the Tiger shipped back. In stepped the "consortium of private collectors ", there is much rumor and innuendo as to exactly who or what, however through political connections and a hefty sum of $ they obtained temporary possession of the vehicle and shipped it to England. In a deal with the U.S.Army and the Ordinance Museum, the Tiger is being restored in England and will then return to the USA. Scuttlebutt is the group doing the restoration is measuring and scaling every detail down to the last roadwheel lug nut so as to be able to accurately reproduce a 1:1 scale model in mild steel! To what end, who can say? This is an interesting thread that has been rehashed many times on another favorite forum of mine: AFVNEWS Discussion Group, hosted by George Bradford. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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