Luftwaffe vs. RAF

[Head Mahone]

First off, I got no luck with a search so here it is.

I'm playing a PBEM where both sides have been given air-support. It appears that the fighters on both sides have arrived at the same time. If not, than the RAF is bombing my tanks and my opponents simultaneously turn after turn. I thought I remember seeing that when this occurs (air-support from both sides collide) the fighters jettison their bombs and dogfight without you knowing about it. The winners of the dogfight then commence with some air-to-ground strafing runs.

So here's my question. When both sides get air-support what happens? Are these flyboys just ignoring each other here, or is this an unbelievable case of friendly fire?

Thanks in advance,

Head

[David Aitken]

There is no mention of air engagements in the manual. In Real Life™ it would be normal for fighter-bombers to attack ground targets while their fighter escort attacks enemy ground attack aircraft and their escort. If you see aircraft attacking both your forces and your opponent's, chances are there are aircraft from both sides involved.

[Paton Returns]

hi im a combat mission guy and ive never played a senerio with air support of any kind i know there r some but witch ones ?

do u actully see the air planes or just their bombs?

[Head Mahone]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by David Aitken:

There is no mention of air engagements in the manual.

If you see aircraft attacking both your forces and your opponent's, chances are there are aircraft from both sides involved.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

David, thanks for replying. The mission briefing for this scenario stated that air-support would be present for both sides. I know that this is not a guarantee, but I have never seen friendly fire on this large a scale. It really looks as if our fighters are ignoring each other and hitting the ground targets only. This seems kinda unrealistic; does anybody know how C.M. models opposing air forces meeting each other?

-Head

[Pvt. Ryan]

Paton, you see the shadows of the planes, but not the planes themselves. If you click on an anti-aircraft weapon trying to fire at the plane you will see the red target line aiming into the air where the plane is. Conversely, if you click on the target at which the plane is aiming you will see the yellow incoming fire line.

[Cos]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Pvt. Ryan:

Paton, you see the shadows of the planes, but not the planes themselves. If you click on an anti-aircraft weapon trying to fire at the plane you will see the red target line aiming into the air where the plane is. Conversely, if you click on the target at which the plane is aiming you will see the yellow incoming fire line.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Then big craters in the ground and burning tanks.......

[Head Mahone]

Fellas,

Can we please stick to the topic/reason that I posted this message? Thanks.

Again, can someone pipe in who knows how C.M. models Allied and Axis air-support attacking at the same time on the same map? I won't have much time to setup a test scenario myself this week and would love a quick answer.

Thanks again,

Head

[ 05-02-2001: Message edited by: Head Mahone ]

[Kingfish]

Head,

IMO, because CM deals with ground combat at a tactical level, air is modeled to only affect what happens on the ground. Opposing air units occupying the same airspace wouldn’t affect each other anymore so than opposing arty units within range of one another.

[Head Mahone]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kingfish:

Opposing air units occupying the same airspace wouldn’t affect each other anymore so than opposing arty units within range of one another.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Kingfish, this does appear to be what I am experiencing. However, it does seem a bit unrealistic and I thought I had heard different as I mentioned in my first post.

Although C.M. deals mainly with "ground combat" air-support is still in the game. I wish they had put in a role the dice system for a dogfight. Then the victor of the dual would begin his ground attack without a bomb load, or would return home due to damage or depleted ammunition.

This might sound like a bit much but watching two opposing air-support units just wave at each other in some mutual air-to-air ceasefire as they drop their bombs is a bit weird.

-Head

[Head Mahone]

......

[Hensworth]

The situation you are describing had a next to nothing chance of occurring over France or Belgium in 1944-45. By then the Luftwaffe, or what was left of it, was fully engaged in fending off bombing raids on Germany.

Therefore, CM does not model this and rightly so.

[Fuse]

I could be pulling this out from where everything I say in class comes from, but this is as I remember it.

This topic was touched on several months ago (searchings a pain so I won't suggest it), and from what I remember, if air support shows up for both sides on the same turn, they do some abstracted air combat and whoever wins gets to bomb the tar out of somebody (friend/foe, it's all the same). However I don't remember who stated this. I tihnk it was someone with authority, but then again it could have been G.W.B.

However, your situation would refute this unless they're one side's CAS with really bad aim.

[Head Mahone]

What Sgt_Kelly described does sound logical but it seems to me that B.T.S. would have modeled what Fuse described. Hell, they didn't skip over any detail anywhere else! I suppose I'll post the results of my air-to-air test scenario since so many people are still unsure about what would happen.

Thanks again for the constructive replies! It seems that our "Combat Mission" discussion forum is beginning to turn into the "General Discussion" forum.

-Head

[Head Mahone]

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