Mr. Johnson-- Posted July 3, 2001 Share Posted July 3, 2001 This is one thing I have not studied much, Pioneers and Engineers. So did the Germans or Russians have good chainsaws with them? What kind of equipment did they have? Any good books on Pioneers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mensch Posted July 3, 2001 Share Posted July 3, 2001 ROTFL.. whoo... weee.. man.. thats a good one. busting a gut here. man someone do a mod for that. oh man.. *cough*.. er ya.. I shut up now. *shuffles off* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Johnson-- Posted July 4, 2001 Author Share Posted July 4, 2001 bump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Duquette Posted July 4, 2001 Share Posted July 4, 2001 I recall reading that the Panzer Pioneers of the 1st SS Leibstandarte Panzer Division were equipped with chainsaws…and wore hockey masks for splinter protection. This may however only be German Propaganda. I'm pretty sure Pioneers from the Totenkopf Division had the deaths heads emblems embossed on there hockey masks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medlinke Posted July 4, 2001 Share Posted July 4, 2001 Well...If they do Chainsaws, I hope they do the correct kind that they actually used....That's a little picky... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted July 4, 2001 Share Posted July 4, 2001 yes, tee hee... I am sure if BTS tried to model chainsaws as offensive weapons, someone would find the stats for overall production and find fault with the over or under modelling of them... I have seen many photos of handsaws in use but have no idea if chainsaws were or were not used. Pretty important things, really - look at all the cordouroy roads (that are indeed includeed in CM2, yippee!) that were built. I'll bet the pioneers sweated more than the infantry, on average. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Duquette Posted July 4, 2001 Share Posted July 4, 2001 Just my opinion but most combat\construction engineering activities are probably best left at an operational level. Perhaps mine clearing or hitting the plunger on a bridge demo are reasonable at the tactical level, but frankly construction of abatis, revetments, trenching, bunkers, laying mines (no FASCAM in WWII), building corduroy roads is not a wham bam thank you-mam’ activity. Even prefab pontoon bridges constructed by specially trained assault engineers is a multi-hour activity for anything other than minor defiles. I watch **** gettin’ built all the time with year 2000 construction equipment…huge earthmovers, 30 ton dozers, monster track-hoes, 50 yard dump trucks. It’s a slow laborious activity ill suited to a game with typical length of 1 to 2 hours. And these guys aren’t getting shot at (at least not on most job sites). Don’t get me wrong; combat engineering tasks are essential to the success of any army. I just think that engineer tasks are better suited to operational level wargames. My 2 fenigs worth. I think the US should have proceeded along with our conquest of Canada in 1812 and made it a State [ 07-03-2001: Message edited by: Jeff Duquette ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Duquette Posted July 4, 2001 Share Posted July 4, 2001 Canada would be far better off. For starters…loose the 3 down football stuff. 4 downs to make a 1st. That’s how civilized people play football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kong Posted July 4, 2001 Share Posted July 4, 2001 I don't know, I would love to defend against an attack of Chainsaw wielding Pioneer troops!! Might as well send a Battalion for that matter! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Duquette Posted July 4, 2001 Share Posted July 4, 2001 Plus you'd have tommorrow off from work for independence day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted July 4, 2001 Share Posted July 4, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jeff Duquette: Just my opinion but most combat\construction engineering activities are probably best left at an operational level. [ 07-03-2001: Message edited by: Jeff Duquette ]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I totally agree; I think the question here was an historical one. My comment about modelling them in CM was obvoiusly tongue in cheek. And only a girl needs 4 downs to get a first down. My God, you get 4 downs each time, and you still never score any touchdowns. What a dull monotonous boring game. Why the CFL never caught on down there is beyond me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Duquette Posted July 4, 2001 Share Posted July 4, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>King Said: I don't know, I would love to defend against an attack of Chainsaw wielding Pioneer troops!! Might as well send a Battalion for that matter!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Well sure, no one could contend with a platoon of Siberian Chainsaw wielding Sappers. I think that can be taken for granted. Especially after the introduction of the BTM Mk II chainsaw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dittohead Posted July 4, 2001 Share Posted July 4, 2001 The Russian's had several battalions of specially trained beaver's which they used in lieu of chainsaws. These beaver's were found mainly in the 69th Battlin Beaver Brigade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Duquette Posted July 4, 2001 Share Posted July 4, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>My God, you get 4 downs each time, and you still never score any touchdowns. What a dull monotonous boring game. Why the CFL never caught on down there is beyond me.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Occasional forays of mad Canadians have attempted to infiltrate into the NFL over the years. However their insistence on punting on third down typically reveals their true identity. Back to Quebec for yeh lad...if we need third down punters we'll give yah a ring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Duquette Posted July 4, 2001 Share Posted July 4, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Dittohead Said: The Russian's had several battalions of specially trained beaver's which they used in lieu of chainsaws. These beaver's were found mainly in the 69th Battlin Beaver Brigade.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Are beavers indigenous to Russia…I think not! Aside from the odd gratuitous beaver one occasionally catches a glimpse of on Pravda TV, I think Russian dam building rodents are limited to бобровый грызун. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Bellator Posted July 4, 2001 Share Posted July 4, 2001 The chainsaws don't worry me, but if those Russkies in CM2 come for me with a BFG and fry my Cacodeamons.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted July 4, 2001 Share Posted July 4, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jeff Duquette: Occasional forays of mad Canadians have attempted to infiltrate into the NFL over the years. However their insistence on punting on third down typically reveals their true identity. Back to Quebec for yeh lad...if we need third down punters we'll give yah a ring.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> You can take a boy out of Quebec, but you can't take the Quebec out of a boy. Cest la vie....the third down punting isn't what bothers you, its the insistence on having poutine in the locker rooms. I must admit, that would bother me as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Duquette Posted July 4, 2001 Share Posted July 4, 2001 “poutine”? What the heck is “poutine”. Is that Canadian for punting on third down? Another reason why Canada should have been abducted by the USA in 1812….beer. You guys make terrible beer. I’ll take a good old fashioned American beer like Molson Golden any day of the week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Johnson-- Posted July 4, 2001 Author Share Posted July 4, 2001 Don't forget USA had a chance to take all of Mexico too, Then all of North America would have be united! Plus Mexico makes a good jumping off point for heading south! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnergoz Posted July 4, 2001 Share Posted July 4, 2001 I wonder what Rexford has to say about the tensile strength of Russian fir trees vs spruce and aspen? Didn't the Russian trees have greater resiliency due to Stalin's precient inclusion of iron shavings in the mulch? Not to mention the use of chainsaw-defeating nails embedded in tree trunks. All will cause Charles considerable coding problems when he models War In The Oaks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dNorwood Posted July 4, 2001 Share Posted July 4, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jeff Duquette: Are beavers indigenous to Russia…I think not! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> They were presumably lend-lease beavers.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Duquette Posted July 4, 2001 Share Posted July 4, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>dNorwood: They were presumably lend-lease beavers....<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> heh heh The over emphasis Westerners like to attribute to lend-lease beavers and their impact on Soviet Combat Performance during the war has in fact been disproved by extensive archival research conducted by David Glantz and John Erickson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheese Burn Posted July 4, 2001 Share Posted July 4, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jeff Duquette: “poutine”? What the heck is “poutine”. Is that Canadian for punting on third down? Another reason why Canada should have been abducted by the USA in 1812….beer. You guys make terrible beer. I’ll take a good old fashioned American beer like Molson Golden any day of the week.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> You tried to "abduct" us, you lost! Coudldn't beat an army 1/1000000000000000000 of your size Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dNorwood Posted July 4, 2001 Share Posted July 4, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jeff Duquette: The over emphasis Westerners like to attribute to lend-lease beavers and their impact on Soviet Combat Performance during the war has in fact been disproved by extensive archival research conducted by David Glantz and John Erickson.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Now the Finnish beavers, on the other hand... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THumpre Posted July 4, 2001 Share Posted July 4, 2001 Wan't there a Volunteer Woodchuck Brigade fighting for the Russians in '41? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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