Playing CMBO is glorifying war?

[Cpl Carrot]

I kinda like this quote from PC PowerPlay about CMBO

"Much better than being there"

When I play, my reasoning is to understand what vets went through. I certainly don't want to send my pixel soldiers to their deaths.

Cpl Carrot

[sturner]

Not that I experienced combat, I didn't, but I was an Infantry Officer for eleven years. Nothing moves me to revulsion quicker, or more surely, than the thought of actual combat.

I have personnally known three infantry men from WWII. One from the 10th Mountain, one from the 101st Airborne, and one Ranger who climbed the cliffs at Pointe du Hoc as part of the 2nd Ranger Battalion.

Each and every one instilled in me convinced me that games, are different from real life. That preparing for war, or learning about war, deep in your guts and mind is more important than a lot of other things. Because when you know the evil, you are committed to prevent its occurance.

Combat Mission is just a game to learn certain things. It is fun. You don't get hurt, not counting sitting in an awkward postion for too long. It exercises your intellect. It is safe conflict. Nothing is more alluring than safe conflict.

But glorify war? No, not glorify. Instruct.

[ 09-20-2001: Message edited by: sturner ]

[Joe Shaw]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Mensch claimed that: even my wife knows the difference, heck over time my wife knows what a Gyrostablizer is or a Sturmgeschutz is. which blew me away!!! Heck she knows when a box of Fallschirmjäger from Dragon comes in and asks what that is, and I say WOOPIE!!! Fallschirmjägers!! WOoT! (yes she knows what woot is too!) She smiles and says "ugh, another box? I guess that will go with your StuH 42 huh?"<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Wow Greg, she sounds like a witty, intelligent, discerning and thoroughly charming young lady ... was she ill when she met you then?

Joe

[Andreas]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Joe Shaw:

Wow Greg, she sounds like a witty, intelligent, discerning and thoroughly charming young lady ... was she ill when she met you then?

Joe<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, in Canada.

[StellarRat]

All my gaming experience has taught me how dangerous and uncertain war is (assuming the games are even close to accurate). Any CM player knows that even the best tactics and equipment will sometimes not prevent heavy losses or failure. It should be the last choice in any disagreement between nations.

[Richard Morgan]

I think that having worn uniform, my attitude towards wargames is probably a little different to those of us who haven't. Looking back on my service - with pride - It is amazing how much of it I didn't enjoy, being cold, knackered drenched, even scared stiff, and no I never saw action!

I relate all of this to those poor little pixallated soldiers running around my screen. I was very low down the food chain myself, a Lance Corporal, and games like CMBO really help my understanding of why someone like me was ordered into in a particular field, wood or village at a particular time.

At the end of the day, I pour myself a reflective gin, ponder on what went wrong and occasionally re-boot and start again. Of course, those who did this for real did not have this option and many of them rest in military cemetaries as a result of mistakes that were probably very similar to those I have made whilst staring into my monitor.

It probably depends on your attitude, but for me, games like CMBO do not glorify, but educate about war.

[kunstler]

I don't think CM, in and of itself, glorifies war in any way, nor do I believe that simply playing it glorifies war.

The player, the person, may glorify war, and may want to use the game as a tool to do so, but I think it is ridiculous to assert that anyone who plays CM glorifies war.

Sports is moderated conflict. It unleashes aggression. Does that mean it promotes confrontation and violence? Hardly.

I come at CM from a non-grog viewpoint. I found the game very interesting, and far from making me eager to run out and join a tank regiment it made me think how insane and dangerous it all is.

You attack without knowing what you are facing: you don't know their numbers, their positions, their strengths. You don't pop up back alive after getting killed every thirty seconds. It is not gratuitous, and BTS has pointedly stayed clear of that, which is NOT the case of many other computer games.

In playing CM the thing I abhore the most is combat casualties. Any decision you make can result in the deaths of dozens or hundreds of men who are under your command. Considering the hopelessly inadequate intelligence you get going in, I find it difficult in good conscience to order troops forward.

That's one aspect of things the game showed me, and I don't think that glorifies war.

I think that people who claim that wargames glorify war are 1) missing the point of these games, 2) attempting to set themselves up in a position of moral superiority so they can feel good about themselves while inflicting guilt on those who enjoy such games, 3) are woefully ignorant of human history, which was violent long before video games and television came along.

Besides, even if she's right, without men capable of committing violence, who would kill all the icky spiders in the bathrooms of the world?

kunstler

[kunstler]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by kunstler:

I don't think CM, in and of itself, glorifies war in any way, nor do I believe that playing wargames does either.

The player, the person, may glorify war and violence, and may want to use the game as a tool to do so, but that's not intrinsic in the game or the player.

Sports is moderated conflict. It unleashes aggression. Does that mean it promotes confrontation and violence? Hardly.

I come at CM from a non-grog/wargamer viewpoint.

I found the game very educational, and far from making me eager to run out and join a tank regiment and mow down enemy soldiers, it made me think how insane and dangerous it all is.

You attack without knowing what you are facing: you don't know their numbers, their positions, their strengths. You don't pop up back alive after getting killed every thirty seconds. It is not gratuitous, and BTS has pointedly stayed clear of that, which is NOT the case of many other computer games.

In playing CM the thing I abhore the most is combat casualties. Any decision you make can result in the deaths of dozens or hundreds of men who are under your command. Considering the hopelessly inadequate intelligence you get going in, and how limited it is in the field (even so it's more than a real commander would get) I find it difficult in good conscience to order troops forward. You really ought to know what you are doing if yer going to command an army. The best equipment in the world won't help you if you have an idiot at the helm.

That's one aspect of things the game showed me, and I don't think that glorifies war.

I think that people who claim that wargames glorify war are 1) missing the point of these games, 2) attempting to set themselves up in a position of moral superiority so they can feel good about themselves while inflicting guilt on those who enjoy such games, 3) are woefully ignorant of human history, which was violent long before video games and television came along.

Besides, even if she's right, without men capable of committing violence, who would kill all the icky spiders in the bathrooms of the world?

kunstler<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[kunstler]

oh cripes. The post edit didn't work, put another post up instead. Apologies for the redundancy. Consider it a back-up in case the one above breaks down.

kunstler