Chad Harrison Posted October 15, 2001 Share Posted October 15, 2001 okay, its happened to all of us. heres your sherman 75 happily shooting at some helpless german infantry. then a panther crests the hill and takes aim at you. it fires once, misses and the turn ends. so ofcourse you put that sucker in full reverse and tell it to fire as many smoke shells as it can at that beast! then you realize that you have 13 (+) seconds to wait before he even starts the engine. we all know the rest of the story, you have a KO sherman because it took him too long. heres my point: infantry can withdrawl, why not tanks? how hard is it for the commander of the TANK to see the panther/tiger/ubertank, and yell "REVERSE" a hundred times? now we see those armored cars, halftracks running and hiding from anything with a weapon bigger than a pencil, but why cant our bigger tanks with little guns do the same? and should we be able to give them faster reverse orders? comments? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leta Posted October 15, 2001 Share Posted October 15, 2001 I think Chad is right. Why not a tank withdraw? I haven't experience as a tank comander but I think that a comander sitting in a Sherman, seeing a King Tiger in front of him probably shout a "REVERSE! GO! GO! GO!" that transform his driver in a deaf for life man. A 13 (or more) seconds in this situation seems a long period of time ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMplayer Posted October 15, 2001 Share Posted October 15, 2001 Excellent point. This points to a schizophrenic feature of the game. Basically, armor is stuck halfway between being micromanaged and being under the control of the tac AI. (movement orders very micromanaged but firing hardly controllable and no SOPs available) The result is not very satisfactory. In any case firing smoke shells at the offending panther is NOT a good idea. They take too long to get burning properly. Your sherman ought to be able to pop faster smoke locally on its own with its smoke mortar. Another quibble with smoke is that ordering an AFV to fire smoke somewhere produces an 'area fire' order which can then get cancelled if the vehicle targets something else. This can get absurd, as when a Priest abandons its smoke order, to fire an MG at some infantry. Then, of course, the smoke isn't there to screen whatever needed screening. This just sucks, and its worth nagging BTS about as often as possible. [ 10-15-2001: Message edited by: CMplayer ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Posted October 15, 2001 Share Posted October 15, 2001 I always imagine that my Sherman tank commanders are screaming, "Tiger!! Backup! Backup!" and the driver is freakin cause he dropped the keys (and the gunner is embarrassed cause he just wet his pants)... I love it though when one of my inferior allied tanks brews up a German monster! I about fell out of my chair the night one of my HQ units took out a King Tiger at 25 meters from the front with two hand grenades. That was cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMplayer Posted October 15, 2001 Share Posted October 15, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Commander: I about fell out of my chair the night one of my HQ units took out a King Tiger at 25 meters from the front with two hand grenades. That was cool.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> You actually _play_ opps who buy KTs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Harrison Posted October 15, 2001 Author Share Posted October 15, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Commander: I always imagine that my Sherman tank commanders are screaming, "Tiger!! Backup! Backup!" and the driver is freakin cause he dropped the keys (and the gunner is embarrassed cause he just wet his pants)... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> ive seen that look before. thats the look on the face of the JV football player who has the senior running back coming at him! has BTS said anything about changing this aspect in CM2? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slapdragon Posted October 15, 2001 Share Posted October 15, 2001 Hell, my Shermans will reverse and pop smoke without me when something truly nasty crests the hill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jshandorf Posted October 15, 2001 Share Posted October 15, 2001 If you leave the Sherman alone and it spots the Panthers it will pop smoke all on its own and reverse. Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMplayer Posted October 15, 2001 Share Posted October 15, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jshandorf: If you leave the Sherman alone and it spots the Panthers it will pop smoke all on its own and reverse. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Yeah. Telling it to area fire smoke at the panther might induce it to stay longer to try to fulfill your 'order'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Posted October 15, 2001 Share Posted October 15, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CMplayer: You actually _play_ opps who buy KTs?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I will but people usually don't want to. In this instance I created a training scenario for myself called Bazooka Hunt. Its night, its raining (LOS sucks). I have four elite HQ units (spotting, morale, etc..) and four elite bazooka's go up against four King Tigers (veterans) in a small village setting. In the instance I mentioned, while scouting, one HQ shooting at 50 meters buttoned the KT and the other HQ at 25 meters threw 2 handgrenades killing the tank and one crew member. The other crew members bailed and while running for cover were gunned down by the HQ unit that killed the tank. I have pictures of the deed to show but do not know how to post them. I was just stunned! I don't mind playing the AI and letting it have super tanks - its a different story when your playing a human. [ 10-15-2001: Message edited by: Commander ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMplayer Posted October 15, 2001 Share Posted October 15, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Commander: I created a training scenario for myself called Bazooka Hunt. Its night, its raining (LOS sucks). I have four elite HQ units (spotting, morale, etc..) and four elite bazooka's go up against four King Tigers (veterans) in a small village setting. [ 10-15-2001: Message edited by: Commander ]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> This sounds very disadvantageous for the tanks. If they have to stay in that village then the crews almost would have to dismount, arm themselves with whatever they've got (hopefully including hand grenades) and guard those tanks like infantry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Posted October 15, 2001 Share Posted October 15, 2001 Yeah it was fun...thats why I created Bazooka hunt II. You go up against 3 veteran King Tigers, 1 crack King Tiger, 4 veteran JagdTigers and two Platoons of crack security infantry with one of the platoons having a elite HQ unit. You have 8 elite bazookas, 2 elite HQ units and one platoon of elite 45s. The objective is to kill all the tanks (and their crews because you have to kill the crack King Tiger commander and you don't know which one he is) and kill the elite HQ unit of one of the security platoons. This scenario is a lot harder!! I have this one set at night with light fog. You can hear them but you can't always see them! Good thing theres no blood in this game! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Harrison Posted October 15, 2001 Author Share Posted October 15, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jshandorf: If you leave the Sherman alone and it spots the Panthers it will pop smoke all on its own and reverse. Jeff<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> in my experience, this works sometimes. it seems that this will work best when the tank is not firing at anything else and is just sitting there. if the weaker tank is already firing at something or moving, they seem to forget about their smoke mortar and reverse. all tankers seem to have developed the tunnel vision syndrome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMplayer Posted October 15, 2001 Share Posted October 15, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Commander: Yeah it was fun...thats why I created Bazooka hunt II.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Hey if you can send 'em over to me I'd be much obliged. Cheers, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_tom_w Posted October 15, 2001 Share Posted October 15, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CMplayer: You actually _play_ opps who buy KTs?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Don't laugh I played the an armour battle once against the AI (2000 pts) I took the Allies and picked my own forces and let the comptuer pick the German forces. Guess What!? 3 - THREE!!! freaking JagTigers showed up. (you know the ones with impenetrable hulls 250mm thick with 128 mm canons with 2 part round and a charge cartridges that slice through ANYTHING they hit!) (I killed two of them and one was immbolized and I got a minor victory out of it, after loosing all my armour to those 3 monsters!) believe it the AI picks king tigers and jagtigers sometimes! -tom w Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Posted October 16, 2001 Share Posted October 16, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by aka_tom_w: Don't laugh I played the an armour battle once against the AI (2000 pts) I took the Allies and picked my own forces and let the comptuer pick the German forces. Guess What!? 3 - THREE!!! freaking JagTigers showed up. (you know the ones with impenetrable hulls 250mm thick with 128 mm canons with 2 part round and a charge cartridges that slice through ANYTHING they hit!) (I killed two of them and one was immbolized and I got a minor victory out of it, after loosing all my armour to those 3 monsters!) believe it the AI picks king tigers and jagtigers sometimes! -tom w<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Tom, What did you get with your 2K points that allowed you to kill those bad babies?(and how did you do it?) Like I said in my post "Keep em covered" you have to watch those JagdTiger tank crews... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_tom_w Posted October 16, 2001 Share Posted October 16, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Commander: Tom, What did you get with your 2K points that allowed you to kill those bad babies?(and how did you do it?) Like I said in my post "Keep em covered" you have to watch those JagdTiger tank crews...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> here's the original AAR post: OK so I sit down for a good game against the AI I pick the Allies and choose a 2000 pt armour battle. Late war April 44 dawn and overcast I take the British and buy one sherm 76 and 3 95 mm churchills and a couple of dailmers with 40 mm AP load. I get all of 1 round of tungsten! What do I meet on the battle field?? GET this! At first I see what I think is one Tiger. (?) next an other Tiger ? then another! OK I think that can't be so bad at least they are slow. Then the first one turns out to be a Vet JagdTiger with the 128 mm main weapon then the second one turns out to the the same thing! Holy Crap I think I'm in it NOW! Meanwhile the Sherm gets immobolized in a decent hull down position and I loose two Churchills to turret pentration because they are both in hull down positions from the 128 mm main weapon Then the third Tiger (?) ALSO turns out to be ANOTHER Vet JagdTiger!! I fought them hard and did my best to flank them. I KO'd one with the Sherm (lucky flank shot to be sure!) and KO'd another with a very lucky PIAT round to the rear aspect as I dropped smoke all over the front of the beast. the third was used VERY wisely by the AI and proved indestructable. BUT I sat on the two major VL's and they both remained undisputed at the end of 30 minutes and I scraped out a 51% minor victory.(Three other minor flags remained nuetral at the end of the game so the Krauts only got 39% Ha!) BUT 3 Jagdtigers??? Talk about BAD luck of the draw I have never seen that one before. Against ANY half decent human my Brits would have be royally screwed I think. The AI played well, and it was FUN! Just thought I would post a little note about the fun I had in my last game vs.the AI. -tom w Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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