"Exited" units, how are they scored?

[GenSplatton]

I don't mean units that purposely exited. I have played a fella a few times. In one game, I had a squad routed by artillery run right off the map. In our current game, I routed two of his right off the map. In both cases, had the units not been able to exit, they would have taken severe casualties. When a unit exits the map, are they treated as kills, captured, or just gone? In other words, do you get any points as a reward for forcing them to exit?

[Pzman]

Exit points are for units of your forces that you exit. If you are defending an exitzone you must stop all enemey units trying to get to it. Hope this clears this up for you.

[GenSplatton]

Actually no, I'm not talking about exit zones. I'm talking strictly units, in a QB ME, that are routed to the point that they run off the map and disappear. In the end, I ended up routing three squads off the SIDE of the map. Just wondering how they were scored.

[Kingfish]

I just ran a little test using two platoons of Canadian rifles walking along the map edge in clear terrain, with the Germans in dug-in positions with clear LOS. After 3 turns the entire force either routed off the map, died or were captured when the AI surrendered. The tally was 44 casualties and 6 captured, so troops that rout off the map are counted as enemy casualties.

Hope this helps.

[Juju]

A unit that exits (in QB) is just what it is: Elsewhere. You won't lose any points for it (casualties suffered before exiting are counted of course) and it certainly won't gain you points anymore. In short, yes, it's simply gone.

[Juju]

Kingfish: how many men in your test actually exited? Did the AAR list any Allied units as 'OK' at all? I'm asking cos my previous post sounds like bull**** after yours since I always assumed exited units didn't count. Probably has something to do with the state they're in then? I mean, if I retreat units (say, a crew or something, or an empty FO) off the map in good order they won't score the enemy points. Which of course is the main reason for pulling units off the map voluntarily: to get them out of harm's way.

Also I clearly remember battle AAR where I eliminated virtually everything on the map and still have the AAR show 'men OK' for the opposing side. Problem is, I don't believe the AI pulls back units voluntarily.

[ 07-28-2001: Message edited by: Juju ]

[Kingfish]

Juju,

Here is the force I started out with for the Canadians:

1 Rifle platoon

1 Engineer platoon

3 Piats

1 Sherman III

3 scout cars

1 3" FO

1 Vickers MG

1 2" mortar

The first three I used for the test, Everyone else I withdrew off the back edge on turn 1. The AAR lists 44 casualties, 13 KIA, 6 captured. No allied units were 'OK', nor were the vehicles counted against the allied total.

[Juju]

I'm at work right now, so I can't run my own tests, and not that I don't believe your results, but I find all this very strange and confusing. That's a lot of Canadian men unaccounted for in that AAR it seems. What was the end result of that 'battle' (in pecental win/loss ratio) BTW?

[Kingfish]

Juju,

I was mistaken when I said there wasn't any Canadians listed as 'OK". Turns out there were 41. The final score was 97 / 3.

[Juju]

Right, I'm back home and just did another hotseat test.

Test one: 2 equal small forces. No LOS to eachother. Immediate cease fire (no contact whatsoever) results in a draw (0/0).

Test two. Same setup. The only change is that I withdraw a US platoon off the map before cease-firing. This one too results in a draw (0/0).

So, voluntarily withdrawing units does NOT cost you points.

Test three. Same setup. This time a US platoon is forced off the map by two German platoons. The Allies take 6 casualties, the remaining 34 men exit in a state of panic.

To get things even I now expose a German squad to US fire until the Axis, too, sustain six casualties. Then I do a cease-fire. Result, yet again a draw (50/50).

My conclusion is that a forced exit does not cost you points.

[Kingfish]

Juju,

You were right all along, the enemy does not gain points from forcing units off the map. After reading about your last hotseat test I decided to run another one myself, only this time I set it up to ensure everyone was either killed or routed off the map.

I lined up 6 US rifle platoons (240 men total) along the map edge and advanced them into the jaws of a German death machine (9x HMG, 3x 150mm IGs, 3x quad 20mm Flak, 3x 37mm Flak, 3x 120mm FOs). By the end of the third turn the AI surrendered (I wonder why). The butcher's bill was 152 casualties (30 KIA), 1 captured, and 87 OK.

[SurlyBen]

Does the edge that the units exit off of matter? In the scenario editor, you can set certain map edges "friendly" to each side, and it always seemed to me that you should get different results for exiting off a friendly map edge than an unfriendly one. Then again that could be there to help the ai and have nothing to do with scoring.

Surlyben

[ 07-29-2001: Message edited by: SurlyBen ]

[Juju]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kingfish:

Juju,

By the end of the third turn the AI surrendered (I wonder why).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL! cruel test. Is it just me or does it seem that it's always Allied units we are 'testing' upon.

SurlyBen, I believe the friendly map edge(s) you can assign in the editor are the compass direction(s) for which you are allowed to use the 'withdraw' command.

[Subvet]

This is slightly off topic, but I justed wanted to remind people that you will take a global morale hit if you exit your units off the map. It is a much better idea to move them to the rear but not exit them.