Looking for Rarity List

[olandt]

Hi,

I'm looking for a list showing how common each of the different units available in CMBO are. I would like to pick realistic formations for QBs and scenario building, but I'm not a WWII historian and do not have the time to become one (I consider myself a fan of WWII history, but I don't have the indepth knowledge a historian would). What I'm looking for is basically a quick guide to field a force that is reasonable. Of course I could always use vanilla units, but it's fun to include the more specialized units. I just want to include them in a realistic manner. (Help would definately be appreciate for the mirad of AFVs, many of which I have no clue whether they were common or not. I don't remember seeing to many Hetzers in the war films.

Thanks

Pete

[Mr. Johnson--]

Do a seach for post by JasonC. He has done several posts on that subject, and even one recently, like the last week on that very subject.

[olandt]

I found JasonCs thread on SMGs but didn't see anything on common formations. I'm look for something like; what would reasonably be found in a 2000pt German Armor setup? On offense, on defense. When might you see a Sturmcompanie? (from the german, on attack of course, but were they all that common?) For some things like an American rifle company, sure, they're all over the place. but how about the Jackson or the Chaffee? Do you see more Shermans, Stuarts, or M18s? At the very simplest something like;

No KTs

NO Super Pershings

Lots of Panzer IVs

Some Panthers

Few Tigers

Maybe I need to search better.

[olandt]

And artillery. The book says avoid the biggest stuff, but what's the "big" stuff. I have absolutely no clue how common 4.2inch mortors were for the amis or 300mm artilery for the Krauts.

[Vergeltungswaffe]

This may be of absolutely no help, but if you are old enough to have played Advanced Squad Leader (as so many CM players did, and even still do), then refer to the many rarity factor lists that are included. They provide an excellent basis from which to surmise what units were common, and so on.

[Mr. Johnson--]

Actually there were a few more Panthers then PZ-IVs in Normandy.

[olandt]

Ah ASL. Unfortunately I was never able to find someone willing to start that up with me, and that was in a gaming club.

Okay new list:

Germans:

No KTs

Some Panthers

Some PZ IV (slightly fewer than Panthers)

Few Tigers

Hetzers?

Stug IIIG and IV?

Pumas?

Wirbelwinds?

Americans:

Any Sherman

Jumbos?

Jacksons?

Canadians?

British?

French?

I don't even know where to begin with the other allies. Cromwells Churhhills ...

[Maastrictian]

here is a very very general list pulled out of my nether regions as a guide line:

Common means in just about every battle. Uncommon means about 1 unit of this for every 5 common units. Uncommon means about 1 to 25. I also comment if the rarity of a vehicle changed during the time it is avalible in CMBO.

Note that there are other factors at work than the number of vehicles produced. It ws Brit practice to put one Firefly in every platoon of Shermans, for instance. On the other hand airborne infantry fought without tanks for the most part as did Volksstrum units.

------

US

Common:

Sherman (75mm)

Sherman (76mm) (Jan on)

Jeep

Truck

AT guns (57 mm more common than 76mm)

Standarded Inf

81mm and 105mm arty

UnCommon:

Halftracks (my impression only)

Sherman (76mm) (to Nov)

M-10

M-18 (Dec on)

Airborne (never with Armor)

> 105mm arty but < 8inch

VT arty

Fighter

Rare:

M-18 (to Nov)

Jackson

Perishing

> 8inch arty

Non-existant

Super Perishing (never fielded)

------

Brits/Canadians

very similar to Americans. Think of 17lbs as 76mm. Some special notes:

The 6lber was integral to the batalion so there were likely more of those in Brit formations.

3inch mortors and 6lbers should have Universal Carriers associated with them rather than trucks.

------

Germans

Common:

No frills Infantry

StuG

light Tank Destroyers (Hertzer, Marder)

81mm, 105mm, and 120mm arty

150mm rockets

(note that the Germans have less arty than Allies)

light guns (50mm and below) (but a large number of 20mm guns is UnCommon!)

75mm infantry guns.

Volkstrum (Feb on)

UnCommon:

heavier rockets and arty

PzIV (becomming less common later)

Panther (becoming more common later)

heavy guns (75mm and above)

Odd Infantry (SMG, etc)

Standard SS infantry

Jagd IV

Unarmored flak vehicles

Kubelwagon

Truck

Rare:

Tiger

JagdPanther

Odd SS infantry (SMG, etc)

Puma

Fighter (to Sept)

Armored flak vehicles

Really-really Rare:

King Tiger

JagdTiger

Fighter (Oct on)

Hopefully I haven't forgoten too many units. Again, this is just a general guide, I'm probably wrong in places.

--Chris

edited for readability

[ 07-06-2001: Message edited by: Maastrictian ]

[Pak40]

Using Maastrictian's post (above) as a basic guide, I'd like to fine tune and elaborate on some of his U.S. suggestions.

57mm AT gun was issued 3 per infantry battalion, so it will be the common AT gun. The 76mm AT guns were only part of Tank Destroyer batallions (usually one TD bat. per infantry div)and since the vast majority of TD battalions were mobile, then it's much more likely that you'll see one of the mobile TDs.

The M18s were getting to be common(replacing the M10s) by the end of 44 and there were some M36s by then also. M10s become uncommon by FEB 45.

For infantry divisions, there was always a chance that they might have tank support, although unlikely. If they were on defense then, the divisional command usually held the tanks in reserve so that they could quickly get to where they were needed. By this rational, it should be fairly common to see tanks used as reinforcements to defending infantry in CM. Other vehicles were rare, maybe an occational jeep.

For all tank battalions (Armored div. or Infanty div):

There should be a 3:1 ratio between Shermans and Light tanks (Stuart or Chaffe). The stuarts were starting to be replaced by the M24 Chaffe in 1945 as the standard light tank.

There were maybe 2-3 105 shermans per tank battalion, making them uncommon or rare. By the end of 44 it should be common to have one 76mm in a platoon of Shermans.

For all Armored Divisions there will be lots of the various halftracks. Armored divisions also had their own recon troop, complete with Greyhounds, other armored cars, light tanks, various halftracks. There was also a TD battalion attached to all armored divisions.

[PiggDogg]

Thanks to Maastrictian and Pak40 for your posts. Even though I really don't want to purchase troops and am an inveterate random AI troop selection person, I will be pleased to see how my upcoming random AI troop purchases stack up to your comments. Your comments seem pretty accurate according to my readings.

Further, so far, my impression is that the random AI troop purchase goes pretty much according to your posts.

Cheers, Richard Cuccia

[olandt]

Thanks guys,

That's really helpful. I plan on making a few maps and stocking them with troops but trying to make it in a sort of QB type battle. Basically, reuse the same map with a few different troop configurations. Let the players decide troop placement and actually give the defender plenty of room to decide the best places to defend.

Thanks

Pete