Split squads don't want to rejoin

[Tris]

With the latest version of the game I've experienced problems rejoining split squads. Not only do half (or more) of the groups refuse to rejoin their squad brethren after the two groups have moved back into close proximity with each other, but upon further inspection I notice that about half of these subunits then turn around in the same turn and of their own volition and head back to where they were originally ordered from. In a few cases the originally ordered squad (say, 1b) will stay put where it was ordered to go, while its sibling (1a) gets up and walks back whence 1b came.

Has anyone else seen this behavior? Perhaps I'm just tumbling to an old issue now. Was this a problem with earlier versions of the game as well?

[Guest Madmatt]

how close are you getting them to each other? I believe the rejoin action is triggered when two split teams are within 10 meters of each other and it *seems* they both need to be in a relatively good moral state as well as in not diving for cover while being shot up.

Madmatt

[Kingfish]

I could be reading this wrong, but are you trying to rejoin squads during the action phase?

[North Star]

I have had a problem where if I split squads on setup, I cannot change my mind and recombine them in setup. Afterwards, they seem to recombine fine, although they do not recombine until your next "orders" phase.

[JoePrivate]

No, never any problems, from your description it sounds like you are ordering the half squad too closely to its sibling at times, causing one or the other to get up and move away. The change in 1.1 was the split squads had to be within 10m of one another to rejoin not 15m as before.

[Phoenix]

Originally posted by North Star:

I have had a problem where if I split squads on setup, I cannot change my mind and recombine them in setup.

That's right. You can't during setup.

[Tris]

Matt, I've studied this issue somewhat carefully. I've tried variations or orders sets to see if particular commands might trigger this odd behavior (e.g., orering the squad to hide when it gets to its destination if the target squad is also hiding, to hide and rotate, not to hide but rotate). I've considered the possibility that if you order them to rotate then the direction has to be the same (or close) to the other squad orientation, etc.

I've gone to both level 2 and level 1 views to micromanage the placement of the final route box so that it ends up directly on top of the target squad--or as close as I can get it. And as I've noted, this only happens in half or so of the cases, so it's not as if I'm unclear on the concept.

Look, you guys. this one ought to be easy to replicate at home. Go to it!

And like the other guy said, splitting squads during scenario creation is a serious bugaboo. I never bothered to whine on that one as I just assumed this was a known issue and would be taken care of one day. Why that hasn't arrived yet is something I don't know.

[Vanir]

Originally posted by Tris:

Look, you guys. this one ought to be easy to replicate at home. Go to it!

Hmm. Well, I just tried it several times. In each case I split a platoon in the setup and then ordered them to move onto the exact same spot. Without exception they all rejoined at the beginning of the following orders phase.

To be honest, in the 8 months I've been playing I've never had a problem with this at all, and I use split squads frequently.

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What a bunch of horsecrap. -Steve

[This message has been edited by Vanir (edited 03-01-2001).]

[FriendlyFire]

I've seen two types of problems with rejoining teams:

1) As Madmatt noted, if one or both teams has a morale problem, they won't rejoin immediately. Move them all to cover and/or get an HQ in range and let things quiet down a bit. On the positive side, I've seen a team that's been broken and gone "brittle" lose that "!" after rejoining its teammates.

2) If you've got one team in the middle of a foxhole, DON'T move the other team to the middle as well! This is why they get there, turn around, and move away - there's no more room slap bang in the middle of the foxhole where you sent them. The terrain that is accepted as "foxhole" is bigger than the visible hole on the map: move the inhabiting team to one side of the foxhole, and send the incoming team to the other side. This is a general problem (i.e. don't move units directly on top of each other, because they know they won't fit and one will move away), but particularly shows up in foxholes and small buildings.

[Guest Ace]

Originally posted by FriendlyFire:

2) If you've got one team in the middle of a foxhole, DON'T move the other team to the middle as well! This is why they get there, turn around, and move away - there's no more room slap bang in the middle of the foxhole where you sent them. The terrain that is accepted as "foxhole" is bigger than the visible hole on the map: move the inhabiting team to one side of the foxhole, and send the incoming team to the other side. This is a general problem (i.e. don't move units directly on top of each other, because they know they won't fit and one will move away), but particularly shows up in foxholes and small buildings.

I've had troubles with getting squads to rejoin in foxholes, so I've taken to moving the second squad just outside the foxhole and then they rejoin. The only problem is the full squad more often than not is outside the foxhole rather than in it on the next turn.

How does the AI determine which split-squad is the "anchor" to which the other will move? It doesn't seem to be random, at least not when I try to rejoin near foxholes.

[Tris]

Ace, that's precisely the conclusion I've come to. I sent Matt what saves I still had and he can do what he wants with it. I understand an issue with small buildings, but foxholes are 1) rationalized re "space" and 2) in any event can accomodate full squads so why not two split squads? Besides, that foxhole can accomodate the full squad eventually . . . after they are successfully joined. It's a hole in the system.

If, in fact, this is a known issue it ought to have been dealt with before now. If it's something new, now's as good a time as any.

By the way, none of these units was under fire, most of them were veteran, two of the squads were crack.

[FriendlyFire]

My theory is that a foxhole will accomodate:

1) A full squad pretty much anywhere in the hole

2) Two teams on opposite sides of the hole

It will NOT accomodate two teams if one is in the middle of the hole. So if you send another team in, they will move away (they will still rejoin if the turn ends before they've moved more than 10m away, but it's less likely to "work" now than in previous versions where it was 15m). The easier way out, as I've said, is to make sure the team already in the foxhole moves to one side before the incoming team gets there.

Granted, this is a manual workaround, but it's difficult to see how the game engine could handle it. Units won't willingly occupy the same space during a turn. The game engine could say "if teams 1A and 1B ever try to occupy the same space, rejoin them immediately" - but then you'd get complaints from people who sent their teams on crossing paths and ended up with a single squad. Another alternative would be to have "rejoin" as a specific order to be applied at the end of a move, similar to "rotate" or "hide", and have this override the "ooops, we're treading on someone's feet, better find cover elsewhere" behavior. But that would have to wait for CM2, and I don't really think it's needed. Just make sure there's room for the incoming team to fit.