Jeff Heidman Posted January 10, 2001 Share Posted January 10, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Slapdragon: I forgot to add, never ask a computer consultant for the straight take on computer technology. Most of them are trained very intensely in one system. Windows NT / 2000 is a big Dog (although 2000 on my Dell seems to be much more stable than NT or 98) and takes an immense amount of know how to get functioning in a networked environment. Most network people I hire who are like Jeff are very smart, and put years of hard work into learning the huge Seattle Folly of Windows, and their very livelyhood depends on Windows remaining a pig to maintain (afterall, if it worked right, who would need them?) Often Macintosh systems scare the heck out of them because they are pretty bullet proof, and Unix systems scare them because all those years of learning NT are down the drain. (I can't blame them. I just started my conversion courses to be a Unix administrator to replace my NT 3.51, and I am very, very confused -- partly because I do not have a good enough technical background, but partly because NT is so backwards from how things work in Unix) So much of the anti-mac rhetoric from the computer professionals is very understandable. It is their livelyhood being threatened.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> See, now you are beginning to piss me off. First of all, I am not a "network person", nor am I a consultant. I am a software developer. Secondly, my livelihood (at the moment) relies on big companies wishing to save themselves tons of money through better management of their parts supply chain. Windows has nothing to do with it, nor does Unix, OS X, or any other particular tool. Third, I thought I rather clearly stated that I have a ton of experience using a variety of different systems and their associated OSs. If anything, I am more experienced working in Unix than anything else. But like I said, it makes no difference to me. I write software, as long as the compilers work ok, I really could not care less what the machine behind it happens to be. Finally, I have no personal, emotional, or financial stake in the success or failure of any computer or OS. Before you give up on having a discussion and just go after someone personally, maybe you should make sure you know something about that person, instead of just making a bunch of bull**** up in the hopes that some of it will stick. Jeff Heidman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Aitken Posted January 10, 2001 Share Posted January 10, 2001 The Mac versus PC argument will never end, and I don't see any point trying to resolve it here. The issue is far too complex – you can easily come up with rock-solid examples which prove that one is better than the other, from your particular perspective. The only completely unshakable argument you can make is that you, personally, like the way one or the other works, and it does what you want it to do. However, I don't think any informed person can disagree that Apple has been a powerful innovative force in the industry since the very birth of personal computers. Without Apple, the whole industry would have been dictated by IBM and Microsoft, and the computers we're using right now would be some kind of futuristic dream. Criticising Apple and the Mac OS is fair enough, but everyone who uses a modern computer should appreciate the part Apple has played in making computing an enjoyable experience. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slapdragon Posted January 10, 2001 Share Posted January 10, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jeff Heidman: See, now you are beginning to piss me off. First of all, I am not a "network person", nor am I a consultant. I am a software developer. Secondly, my livelihood (at the moment) relies on big companies wishing to save themselves tons of money through better management of their parts supply chain. Windows has nothing to do with it, nor does Unix, OS X, or any other particular tool. Third, I thought I rather clearly stated that I have a ton of experience using a variety of different systems and their associated OSs. If anything, I am more experienced working in Unix than anything else. But like I said, it makes no difference to me. I write software, as long as the compilers work ok, I really could not care less what the machine behind it happens to be. Finally, I have no personal, emotional, or financial stake in the success or failure of any computer or OS. Before you give up on having a discussion and just go after someone personally, maybe you should make sure you know something about that person, instead of just making a bunch of bull**** up in the hopes that some of it will stick. Jeff Heidman <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Jeff, take a deep breath, look out the window at the snow covered fields, and be happy. You get too emotional about this stuff. I have been on both ends of the chain in multimedia work, consulting and hiring consultants of both types. When I switched from television directing to multimedia production, and began computer consulting prior to my return to school, I found out that cognitive dissonnace is very high in this area, and a manager had to look coments like you made earlier with a big grain of salt. So relax, I am not against you. I have nothing against parts logistics, I own a PC, and I have a UNIX server farm in my office I am responsible for. Be happy! The world is a happy place! [This message has been edited by Slapdragon (edited 01-09-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_tom_w Posted January 10, 2001 Author Share Posted January 10, 2001 WOW I started the thread to chat with other MAc users here.. (because I know there are plenty of them) about the news from the Keynote speech today. Sorry it had to be a stale old PC vs. Mac debate. Oh well I just wanted to here from other mac users about the how they felt about today's news? Nothing more Happy Happy... New Toys from Apple -tom w Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Aitken Posted January 10, 2001 Share Posted January 10, 2001 Toys! Shiny things! The smell of new computer hardware! Megahertz! Words with "i" at the beginning! Steve Jobs saying "pretty cool, huh?"! Now, where did I put that four grand... y'know, the one that should always materialise in my pocket after Macworld Expo keynotes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slapdragon Posted January 10, 2001 Share Posted January 10, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by aka_tom_w: WOW I started the thread to chat with other MAc users here.. (because I know there are plenty of them) about the news from the Keynote speech today. Sorry it had to be a stale old PC vs. Mac debate. Oh well I just wanted to here from other mac users about the how they felt about today's news? Nothing more Happy Happy... New Toys from Apple -tom w<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Actually any Mac discussion usually ends up with at least one PC Troll. We had one the other day on the Multimedia Users Group when people started talking about using Final Cut Pro for high end video work. Except in that group everyone uses Macs and the poor PC Troll was all alone. By the way, can you lend me $2500 for a couple of months? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Aitken Posted January 10, 2001 Share Posted January 10, 2001 YES, GeForce2 cards as a built-to-order option! They may only be MXs, but the value is in breaking ATi's monopoly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rob/1 Posted January 10, 2001 Share Posted January 10, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by aka_tom_w: I mention this because I understand Steve and Charles work on Macs and Developed CM on a MAC. Did anyone else here see the Keynote Speech by Steve Jobs? It was a great Speech and the new technology announcements from Apple are remarkable. iTunes iDVD iMovie and Maya to run on OSX on NEW faster G4's and The NEW G4 Titanium Power book at 500 mHz 15.2 mega Wide LCD display, 5.3 pounds ONLY 1 inch thick. ALL cool new Toys! -tom w<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Go Steve Jobs! Go Macs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karch Posted January 10, 2001 Share Posted January 10, 2001 About the iMac comment. Come now, the iMac? Cute, but so what? Well, it's faster than P3 and P4s at combat mission, I can do Digital Video work out of the box that almost no stock PC except for Sony can handle. I use Macs and PCs at work developing FileMaker database solutions and know that PCs are faster at some things than Macs. But when people come up with crap like calling Macs cute but not real computers, well, I figure they just have an axe to grind and don't have any facts to back it up. I have to say, I hide my PCs under my desk, and show of my iBook, G4 and iMacs on top of desks. Sure it doesn't make it run any better, but why not have a little style in your computer. I don't mind paying more for design. Do you like Yugos or BMWs? They both get you around... but STYLE. Mac PC debates will never go away, but man I hate the ones that pick on the fact that Apple actually takes a little pride on the way their computers look. All I can say is they all look better than any PC... except maybe the Vaio laptop. That's a cool PC. karch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Heidman Posted January 10, 2001 Share Posted January 10, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by aka_tom_w: WOW I started the thread to chat with other MAc users here.. (because I know there are plenty of them) about the news from the Keynote speech today. Sorry it had to be a stale old PC vs. Mac debate. Oh well I just wanted to here from other mac users about the how they felt about today's news? Nothing more Happy Happy... New Toys from Apple -tom w<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Yeah, it was unfortunate that some felt a need to attack everything not Mac, but what can you do? Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Heidman Posted January 10, 2001 Share Posted January 10, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Slapdragon: Jeff, take a deep breath, look out the window at the snow covered fields, and be happy. You get too emotional about this stuff. I have been on both ends of the chain in multimedia work, consulting and hiring consultants of both types. When I switched from television directing to multimedia production, and began computer consulting prior to my return to school, I found out that cognitive dissonnace is very high in this area, and a manager had to look coments like you made earlier with a big grain of salt. So relax, I am not against you. I have nothing against parts logistics, I own a PC, and I have a UNIX server farm in my office I am responsible for. Be happy! The world is a happy place! [This message has been edited by Slapdragon (edited 01-09-2001).]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I am relaxed, I just do not like it when people who are not half as smart as they think they are have the audacity to call me a liar, and say that my opnions are driven by some agenda. I have disagreed with you more than once, but I have never stooped so low as to claim that your opinions are not honestly held. I have nothing against Macs. I do think Apple has a track record of poor management, but that is beside the point. If nothing else has been made clear, your rather elitist and bigotted attitude towards anyone who does not agree with you has (once again) been made apparent. Jeff Heidman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Heidman Posted January 10, 2001 Share Posted January 10, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by karch: About the iMac comment. Come now, the iMac? Cute, but so what? Well, it's faster than P3 and P4s at combat mission, I can do Digital Video work out of the box that almost no stock PC except for Sony can handle. I use Macs and PCs at work developing FileMaker database solutions and know that PCs are faster at some things than Macs. But when people come up with crap like calling Macs cute but not real computers, well, I figure they just have an axe to grind and don't have any facts to back it up. I have to say, I hide my PCs under my desk, and show of my iBook, G4 and iMacs on top of desks. Sure it doesn't make it run any better, but why not have a little style in your computer. I don't mind paying more for design. Do you like Yugos or BMWs? They both get you around... but STYLE. Mac PC debates will never go away, but man I hate the ones that pick on the fact that Apple actually takes a little pride on the way their computers look. All I can say is they all look better than any PC... except maybe the Vaio laptop. That's a cool PC. karch<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Karcj, I am not the one who brought up how they look. Read for content, not for what you want to see. I will leave the rest of your comments alone. If you are happy with your iMac, good for you. Jeff Heidman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freak Posted January 10, 2001 Share Posted January 10, 2001 Jeff; you sound like a window user. Not much else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted January 10, 2001 Share Posted January 10, 2001 OK, time to close this one up. I will just end with my own thoughts. Those of you that might yell "hey! He got in the last word! Not fair!!" can just bite me This is my personal and professional experience, and there isn't anybody that can challenge it, so I am not cutting debate short here. This will drone on forever! If we could convert every CM user to a Mac, Charles and I would be a LOT happier. No, not because Apple would be stronger, but because we would free up a lot more time for making better games. See... right now we code something on the Mac, it works fine for the most part. We code something for the PC, it doesn't work right for the most part. Making matters worse, most COMPUTER users don't know much about their systems, but it matters a lot more for Windows based systems than the Mac. Compounding this, the reality is we have a lot more PC users than Mac ones (but only about 4:1, not 10:1 as some people have blindly bought into). So to say again... we spend more time developing for the Windows platform than the Mac platform. After the game is released we spend more time fixing problems for the Windows platform than the Mac platform. We have to spend more support time per Windows user than Mac user, which is made worse by the fact that there are MORE Windows users (i.e. the more "costly" to support). Windows based systems might be the standard, and Apple might be marginalized by moronic management, but that doesn't mean the Windows systems are "better" from our point of view. The only saving grace is we don't have to walk PC users through flipping dip switches (how accurately named ) and configuring obscure files with a command line interface. I think we would just shoot ourselves if we had to do this Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshik Posted January 10, 2001 Share Posted January 10, 2001 Not to fan the flames, but... I just finished reading the recent thread titled "Emanuel Virus- PBEM opponents beware!!!". I came across such phrases as "Unistall Windows scripting host", "VBScript encoded file", and "Format C". As a Mac user, I'm rather unfamiliar with these terms and concepts. Are these things common in the PC world? Am I missing out on something wild and wonderful here? Damn... all these exciting adventures, and I'm stuck here with a Mac that just keeps chugging along... day after day... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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