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sherman 75mm ROF

Chad Harrison
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Chad Harrison Senior Member

Chad Harrison

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ive been doing some tests comparing the sherman 75 to the mark IV. i have noticed that the mark IV's 75mm MA fires faster than the shermans 75mm. maybe i was just misinformed, but i always thought the sherman 75mm had a quite high ROF, atleast faster than the germans MBT??? could someone confirm my understanding, or set this wayward CM player straight! thanks.

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Pzman Senior Member

Pzman

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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chad Harrison:

ive been doing some tests comparing the sherman 75 to the mark IV. i have noticed that the mark IV's 75mm MA fires faster than the shermans 75mm. maybe i was just misinformed, but i always thought the sherman 75mm had a quite high ROF, atleast faster than the germans MBT??? could someone confirm my understanding, or set this wayward CM player straight! thanks.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Look at the blast strangth in the unit data. The PZ IVs is better if I remember correctly.

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Pzman Senior Member

Pzman

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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dunc:

erm...what has blast strength got to do with it? :confused:

P.S. I loved your sound mod panzerman...hehe

[ 08-02-2001: Message edited by: dunc ]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And I would love to slap you in the face with a Tiger tank... :D

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Username Senior Member

Username

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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chad Harrison:

yes the sherman has a higher blast rating (39, ger 75mm=34), but SHOULDNT the sherman have a HIGHER Rate of fire? thats my question. i did know that it had a bigger punch than the others.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I dont think the sherman HE shell had that big a punch than german 75mm shells. Its one of those Urban-Legends that everyone quotes. In fact, theres some evidence tht the german HE had a bigger payload.

Lewis

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Chad Harrison Senior Member

Chad Harrison

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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Username:

I dont think the sherman HE shell had that big a punch than german 75mm shells. Its one of those Urban-Legends that everyone quotes. In fact, theres some evidence tht the german HE had a bigger payload.

Lewis<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

if that is a urban legend, looks like we have all fell for it. since the sherman is somewhat undergunned in other areas, it always made my heart feel good that the nice big target had atleast some good HE punch!

still, any grogs out there who know if the sherman 75 did in fact fire faster than other tanks 75's? alright this is a test to see who has their reference books at work!!!(i dont)

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dunc Senior Member

dunc

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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Panzerman:

And I would love to slap you in the face with a Tiger tank... :D<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And I would love to get into a discussion about the "quality" of your mods, but I wouldnt want this to develop into a slanging match...i also doubt you'd be strong enough to pick up a Tiger tank to slap me with... tongue.gif

edited because i'm a perfectionist

[ 08-02-2001: Message edited by: dunc ]

[ 08-02-2001: Message edited by: dunc ]

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dunc Senior Member

dunc

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wow, this must be the most I've ever replied to one thread.

I wont patronise you by asking "were all the crews the same experience in your test?"

Maybe the German shell is heavier because it has more HE(hence the higher blast), so it takes longer to load? that must be the wildest guess ever taken.

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Username Senior Member

Username

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edited because i'm a perfectionist

[ 08-02-2001: Message edited by: dunc ]

[ 08-02-2001: Message edited by: dunc ]

--------------------

Well a perfectionist would know that you can edit out all but one of these:

[ 08-02-2001: Message edited by: dunc ]

Lewis

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JonS Senior Member

JonS

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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Username:

edited because i'm a perfectionist

[ 08-02-2001: Message edited by: dunc ]

[ 08-02-2001: Message edited by: dunc ]

--------------------

Well a perfectionist would know that you can edit out all but one of these:

[ 08-02-2001: Message edited by: dunc ]

Lewis<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe he's just an egotistical perfectionist, and wants everyone to know it took him at least three shots to get a satisfactory post.

There's always another explanation ...

Be cool

JonS

Edited because I'm a nimrod who can't sbell

Edited twice because I'm a nimrod who stull cen't sbell

[ 08-02-2001: Message edited by: JonS ]

[ 08-02-2001: Message edited by: JonS ]

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Jeff Duquette Senior Member

Jeff Duquette

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Hunnicutt indicates M4(75mm versions and 76mm versions) were capable of a main gun ROF of 20 rounds per minute. This represents "hog-wild" firing...quick as loader can pull rounds from the ready rack, shuv in breech and gunner depressing firing petal. Accuracy is obviously in the ****ter at this rate.

Will dig for info on MkIV this weekend. Point of interest however, French Army testing of Panther (post-War) came up with a max firing rate of 20 rounds per minute.

Hope this helps...your welcome for info.

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Maximus Senior Member

Maximus

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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Panzerman:

And I would love to slap you in the face with a Tiger tank... :D<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And we would love for you to thoroughly read a post before you post one of your famous one-liners.

[Edited by Panzerman: 8/3/01] tongue.gif

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gunnergoz Senior Member

gunnergoz

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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jeff Duquette:

Hunnicutt indicates M4(75mm versions and 76mm versions) were capable of a main gun ROF of 20 rounds per minute. This represents "hog-wild" firing...quick as loader can pull rounds from the ready rack, shuv in breech and gunner depressing firing petal. Accuracy is obviously in the ****ter at this rate.

Will dig for info on MkIV this weekend. Point of interest however, French Army testing of Panther (post-War) came up with a max firing rate of 20 rounds per minute.

Hope this helps...your welcome for info.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Obviously the loader is working like a madman, but with three seconds between rounds, the gunner may have sufficient time to keep the gun layed on the target.

Anyway, if any single target required 20% of my ammo loadout in one minute, I should be seriously in reverse gear! :D

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Chad Harrison Senior Member

Chad Harrison

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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jeff Duquette:

Hunnicutt indicates M4(75mm versions and 76mm versions) were capable of a main gun ROF of 20 rounds per minute. This represents "hog-wild" firing...quick as loader can pull rounds from the ready rack, shuv in breech and gunner depressing firing petal. Accuracy is obviously in the ****ter at this rate.

Will dig for info on MkIV this weekend. Point of interest however, French Army testing of Panther (post-War) came up with a max firing rate of 20 rounds per minute.

Hope this helps...your welcome for info.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

the way that i had heard that it had a higher rate of fire was from a story somewher and from Adv. Squad Leader which gave the sherman 75mm a good multiple hit opportunity. is you could get the numebrs for the mark IV, that would be interesting to know. what if they both had the same ROF, but since the sherman had more ammo, were the crews more likely to fire more rapidly? perhaps that is why ASL gave them the bonus (m4a3 75mm had over 100 rounds of 75mm!)

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rexford Senior Member

rexford

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Based on the data in our book (WW II BALLISTICS: Armor and Gunnery), following is data on 75mm HE rounds:

U.S. 75mm HE

14.6# projectile, 1.7# HE filler

German 75mm Sprngr.Patr.KwK(34)

12.6# projectile, 1.9# HE filler

German 75mm Sprgr. 42

12.7# projectile, 1.4# HE filler

German 75mm Sprgr. 34

9.8# projectile, 1.0# HE filler

Fragment density and velocity is function of metal quality, ratio of HE filler-to-total weight (more explosive per metal weight means more fragments), HE filler effectiveness (does 1# of German HE filler equal more or less than 1# of U.S. stuff), etc.

U.S. 75mm HE puts out more effective fragments than 76mm and 90mm HE, so it is pretty potent.

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Username Senior Member

Username

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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by rexford:

U.S. 75mm HE

14.6# projectile, 1.7# HE filler

German 75mm Sprngr.Patr.KwK(34)

12.6# projectile, 1.9# HE filler

Fragment density and velocity is function of metal quality, ratio of HE filler-to-total weight (more explosive per metal weight means more fragments), HE filler effectiveness (does 1# of German HE filler equal more or less than 1# of U.S. stuff), etc.

U.S. 75mm HE puts out more effective fragments than 76mm and 90mm HE, so it is pretty potent.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

But is the US 75mm more effective than the German KWK34? The German HE seems to have a higher ratio of HE to weight. The Germans used cast or pressed casings for the HE because it breaks up into more uniform fragments. You would not want a shell case made out of strong steel. This requires the energy of the explosion to be spent on rupturing the case instead of accelerating the fragments.

Lewis

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