illo Posted January 31, 2001 Share Posted January 31, 2001 I think it wouldnt be good that rare vehicles cost more. For example some halftracks...would you pay 2x price of Pz-IV from rare halftrack? Is it possible that rare vehicles availability is simply lower?(ehh thats what rare means) So that you cant buy 10 rare vehicles to 1500 point battle..not because they cost more, but because you just arent allowed to buy those. Even better is if availabity was random factor...so that some battles you may get those vehicles and some battles not at all. [This message has been edited by illo (edited 01-30-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chupacabra Posted January 31, 2001 Share Posted January 31, 2001 The system is optional. Use it if you want. ------------------ Soy super bien soy super super bien soy bien bien super bien bien bien super super Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger Posted January 31, 2001 Share Posted January 31, 2001 I'm guessing the rarity system will give the unit a chance to appear in the lists as a purchasable unit, this chance based on historical availability for a given month, with appropriate cost? *Tiger* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illo Posted January 31, 2001 Author Share Posted January 31, 2001 I'm guessing the rarity system will give the unit a chance to appear in the lists as a purchasable unit, this chance based on historical availability for a given month, with appropriate cost? Yes Tiger thats what I thought would be good. The system is optional. Use it if you want. Why did you bother to post that Chupacabra? [This message has been edited by illo (edited 01-30-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Space Thing Posted January 31, 2001 Share Posted January 31, 2001 Let me get this straight. When we use the (optional) rarity system in CM2, we will not be able to get a dozen rare vehicles like a Puma. That makes sense. It is also gonna cost more to just get that single Puma. Isn't the player (who wants a Puma) being penalized twice? Once for lack of availability (which is correct) and once for an inflated cost (in points). I'm for REALLY rarity but not for inflated costs. I use a voluntary system already and I like it. What does rarity mean anyways? It means that there simply isn't many of them. Cost to produce could only be one of many different reasons for that situation. And it could be a minor one at that. Political reasons can reflect a vehicles raity. This is especially true with Germany and the quirks of it's leadership. I hope that inflated costs won't be extravagant -if they are employed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AbnAirCav Posted January 31, 2001 Share Posted January 31, 2001 The optional rarity system Steve postulated in this excellent thread over here incorporates a random "roll" to vary the relative scarcity point costs and does sound like a good system, IMHO. If implemented the way described, it will almost ensure that rare vehicles do get chosen in some battles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted January 31, 2001 Share Posted January 31, 2001 AbnAirCav, thanks for posting the link. If anybody is interested in Rarity, that is probably the best of about a dozen threads on the topic. Definitely worth a read SpaceThing: What does rarity mean anyways? It means that there simply isn't many of them. Or none at all. As the first page of the thread linked to above illustrates, limiting the numbers is not good enough. Rarity is designed to force (optionally, of course) players to purchase more or less common units. Every once and a while rare stuff will filter into a battle, but with a "unit pool" concept they will be almost as common as they are now. Read more of the thread to dive deep into the proposed feature Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark IV Posted January 31, 2001 Share Posted January 31, 2001 I feel very strongly that this feature should be optional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorBeef Posted January 31, 2001 Share Posted January 31, 2001 Originally posted by illo: I think it wouldnt be good that rare vehicles cost more. For example some halftracks...would you pay 2x price of Pz-IV from rare halftrack? Is it possible that rare vehicles availability is simply lower?(ehh thats what rare means) So that you cant buy 10 rare vehicles to 1500 point battle..not because they cost more, but because you just arent allowed to buy those. Even better is if availabity was random factor...so that some battles you may get those vehicles and some battles not at all. [This message has been edited by illo (edited 01-30-2001).] How about a rarity system in which each item is put into a category based on its rarity? Lets say... King tigers and jagdpanthers are in "very rare", and tigers and some of the rarer half tracks are in "rare".. and perhaps have a system in which the values for them are the same as they'd be with the rarity system off (their 'combat value' rating), but you could only have 10% of your force from the "very rare category", and only 25% of your force from the "rare" category, but you could have unlimited "common" units (say, panzer 4s).. that way the point balance is the same, but a german player couldn't have 5 king tigers. These numbers are arbitrary, I'm just trying to demonstrate my ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted January 31, 2001 Share Posted January 31, 2001 SenorBeef, the system as designed largely accomplishes what you are looking for. Except that there is no sort of "rarity quota" for a particular mix of units. The entire purpose of having a Rarity system is to largely, at least for the average game, eliminate the use of "rare" vehicles. A system like you are describing inherently allows them in each and every battle. This goes against the whole concept, just like "vehicle pools". Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted January 31, 2001 Share Posted January 31, 2001 I think it should be very rare for the German player to have any men in his ranks post 1942. After Stalingrad the morale in Germany was so low that Heer had to fill the gaps with hamster recruits. Does the rarity system take this into account? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Olesen Posted January 31, 2001 Share Posted January 31, 2001 I read through (most of) the thread referenced above. This seems to be a reasonable rarity system. Another, similar, way to do it would be to keep the standard point costs, but instead decide randomly which units are available and which are not. The proposed system leaves me with two questions, though. 1. Assuming the rarity option is used, how do non-grogs (like me) know when a point cost reflects rarity (i.e. when the unit is uneconomical to buy)? Will I get some info in the purchase screen telling me what the "standard" point value of the unit is, or how much the cost is higher then the "standard" cost (assuming it cannot be cheaper)? I think this is important, we don't all know these values by heart, and it can be hard to judge if a T34/76 costing x pts is a better buy than a T34/85 costing y points. 2. In a QB, restarting the game will effectively give you a different choice of units. This is not necessarily bad, but it provides the weak souls (not me ofc - and definitely not you either ) with a temptation to restart a pbem setup (as the first player) until you get what you want. I think the first point should be dealt with. I'm not so sure about the second. It would be nice if there was a simple way of doing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Space Thing Posted January 31, 2001 Share Posted January 31, 2001 Thanks to you AbnAirCav! I (re)read the thread & I have to say that I like the idea better now. It makes perfect sense. The optional rarity will only strengthen an already SUPER game. Go BTS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IntelWeenie Posted January 31, 2001 Share Posted January 31, 2001 Originally posted by Robert Olesen: 1. Assuming the rarity option is used, how do non-grogs (like me) know when a point cost reflects rarity (i.e. when the unit is uneconomical to buy)? Will I get some info in the purchase screen telling me what the "standard" point value of the unit is, or how much the cost is higher then the "standard" cost (assuming it cannot be cheaper)? I think this is important, we don't all know these values by heart, and it can be hard to judge if a T34/76 costing x pts is a better buy than a T34/85 costing y points. Since I'm would like more info on the unit purchase screen anyway, I think this is a most excellent idea. Since base cost is determined by the unit's capabilites, it's the easiest way (especially for non-grogs) to compare the combat value of units. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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