John Kettler Posted July 13, 2001 Share Posted July 13, 2001 Attention! The link will take you to the biggest trove of data on the AVRE I've seen so far. Topics covered include origin and development, store loads, crew duties, reloading procedure, ROF, range (increased with sights), recommended uses, typical targets, urban combat potential, incredible color photos of three different AVRE versions, one at a site some will find familiar, plus the most elusive data of all--explosive load, quantity and charge type for the little understood Flying Dustbin projectile. There's even data on fuze types! Rexford and colleagues should be able to tell us all kinds of useful stuff after seeing all this. My first pass through the info suggests that BTS may want to revisit how it models the Flying Dustbin when it redoes the game engine. I think the FD's being shortchanged compared to its nastier real world counterpart. The FD discussion is in the posts close to the bottom of the thread. Have fun! John Kettler AFV NEWS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holien Posted July 13, 2001 Share Posted July 13, 2001 Good site and an interesting debate about what the role should have been for these tanks. I think the description of loading the round gives a good idea that this was not to be done under fire. We often forget when playing these games the reality of what we are simulating and what we are asking or pixels to do, would not be done in real life. H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Bellator Posted July 13, 2001 Share Posted July 13, 2001 I remain one of the group which belive this particular tank is totally misrepresented in CMBO. In the game it can be lethal against armour and virtually useless against everything else, which is the exact opposite of RL. I don't expect any re-writes now that CM2 is looming and it doesn't exactly ruin the game, but it would be fantastic if BTS took the time to implement a fix and get this machine working properly. In an ideal situation it should have an option to demolish roadblocks, clear minefields and smash bunkers. I would imagine that if a round landed near anything not behind armour plating it's blast would be devastating. However, it's lack of accuracy would preclude it being used in an AT role. On the thread listed above no-one was able to find an example of an AVRE knocking out any AFV. Thanks for the heads up on that thread, very interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted July 14, 2001 Author Share Posted July 14, 2001 I certainly wouldn't want to be in a tank hit by that thing, however unlikely the chance. The concussion alone might kill you, and that's if pie plate sized spall ricocheting inside the tank didn't get there first. The description sure read like HESH to me. Theoretically, the Flying Dustbin should be bad news to infantry in buildings of any sort, since the HESH charge turns the inside of the wall itself into a cloud of splinters, brick chunks or rock chips. And that's assuming it doesn't outright breach the wall. Yet the present weird dynamic on hollow charge effects makes it deadly vs. a pillbox and so so vs. infantry in buildings. Grr. Another thing I'd love to see in future versions of the game is delay fuzing on HE direct fire (and maybe indirect fire) projectiles. That way, the explosion will occur inside the building, making a much bigger impression on the recipients. Regards, John Kettler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted July 15, 2001 Author Share Posted July 15, 2001 Does anybody have or know how to locate engineering drawings, photos, cutaway illustrations, etc., for the Flying Dustbin projectile? Would love to see the warhead layout. If you do, please post them and/or notify Rexford and Jeff Duquette. Apologies to anyone I forgot! Regards, John Kettler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark IV Posted July 15, 2001 Share Posted July 15, 2001 I found this... Dustbin ...FWIW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted July 15, 2001 Author Share Posted July 15, 2001 Mark IV, Nice try, but that's not the right projectile, even though the name appears to have carried over. What you have is for a later 165mm demolition gun, maybe the same as what the U.S. M-60 based Combat Engineering Vehicle had. What we're looking for is 290mm in diameter, a great deal larger than the 165mm (6.5") HESH round you so kindly provided the link to. That's the bad news. The good news is that the site (simply lop the last piece off the URL) is a fabulous information resource for grogs and the merely curious. Tons of amazing info. Want to see a British 4.2" mortar bomb (both types)? It's there. To anyone who knows the U.S. 4.2" mortar bomb one glance will explain the lower blast rating on the British munition. Want to see a PIAT round in cutaway? You could build one from the drawings. Build tank or artillery models? The site's a must see. You'll finally get your shells properly marked. The place is an ordnance grog's wildest fancy--fuzes, guns, flares, ack-ack, bombs, igniters, period guns, and so much more. The other good news is that I E-mailed the site owner directly and asked for his help. Outstanding referral! John Kettler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted July 16, 2001 Author Share Posted July 16, 2001 Bumping in the hopes that more people will see the main thread and that everyone with any interest in ordnance will see the site Mark IV kindly linked. Regards, John Kettler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Duquette Posted July 16, 2001 Share Posted July 16, 2001 John: US War Department did a tech manual on WWII British Army Ordnance TM 9-1985-1 British Explosive Ordnance (July 1952); If you are serious about finding this information (beyond the hope that someone will post an all encompassing URL) you could probable track down a copy of the above Tech Manual. It may have the information you are searching for. Sometimes old tech manuals and field manuals can be obtained from The Government Printing Office at:http://bookstore.gpo.gov/ You might also try: http://www.sonic.net/bandl/ForSale.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted July 16, 2001 Author Share Posted July 16, 2001 Jeff, Thanks for the reference! Will have to do some digging. I have fairly high hopes that the master of the British Ordnance site will come up with something, though. Now, where's rexford? I specifically invited him to join the party. Regards, John Kettler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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