Guest Scott Clinton Posted February 6, 2001 Share Posted February 6, 2001 First my apologies to the "Do a search crowd". I did a search and although I am sure I brought this up before (for the beta version of the 1.1 patch) it was more than 30 days ago and I could not find it. So... I have a re-occurring bug (and PBeM files if anyone wants them) where non-turreted AFVs using Area Fire will refuse to fire. Here is a Stug at the start of the turn, notice 12HE and 4smoke: Now, here is the same Stug at the end of the turn...note he still has 12HE and 4s never fired a shot. The next turn I plotted him to fire 2m to the side, and he fired fine. Also, in one case (if I can find the file) I had a gun fire area fire for one turn...then stop the next and I never shifted his target (never under fire, buttoned up, etc. etc...) Like I said if anyone wants the files I have them. If you don't want to fix the bug, let this thread drift to the bottom... I am not up to dueling posts/egos and these days, really. ------------------ Please note: The above is solely the opinion of 'The Grumbling Grognard' and reflects no one else's views but his own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Scott Clinton Posted February 6, 2001 Share Posted February 6, 2001 First my apologies to the "Do a search crowd". I did a search and although I am sure I brought this up before (for the beta version of the 1.1 patch) it was more than 30 days ago and I could not find it. So... I have a re-occurring bug (and PBeM files if anyone wants them) where non-turreted AFVs using Area Fire will refuse to fire. Here is a Stug at the start of the turn, notice 12HE and 4smoke: Now, here is the same Stug at the end of the turn...note he still has 12HE and 4s never fired a shot. The next turn I plotted him to fire 2m to the side, and he fired fine. Also, in one case (if I can find the file) I had a gun fire area fire for one turn...then stop the next and I never shifted his target (never under fire, buttoned up, etc. etc...) Like I said if anyone wants the files I have them. If you don't want to fix the bug, let this thread drift to the bottom... I am not up to dueling posts/egos and these days, really. ------------------ Please note: The above is solely the opinion of 'The Grumbling Grognard' and reflects no one else's views but his own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasoncawley@ameritech.net Posted February 6, 2001 Share Posted February 6, 2001 The StuG looks a little high up. Is it possible you were on the edge and he can't depress the gun enough to hit that point? Might try aiming at the second floor and see if it is still a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasoncawley@ameritech.net Posted February 6, 2001 Share Posted February 6, 2001 The StuG looks a little high up. Is it possible you were on the edge and he can't depress the gun enough to hit that point? Might try aiming at the second floor and see if it is still a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pvt. Ryan Posted February 6, 2001 Share Posted February 6, 2001 My understanding is that CM doesn't model gun elevation and depression limits. I think maybe the Stug doesn't really have LOS to that particular spot and won't fire - like when you area target with a mortar to a spot that is not within LOS. I am sure Scott already thought of this. I have had not noticed any problems myself. [This message has been edited by Pvt. Ryan (edited 02-06-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pvt. Ryan Posted February 6, 2001 Share Posted February 6, 2001 My understanding is that CM doesn't model gun elevation and depression limits. I think maybe the Stug doesn't really have LOS to that particular spot and won't fire - like when you area target with a mortar to a spot that is not within LOS. I am sure Scott already thought of this. I have had not noticed any problems myself. [This message has been edited by Pvt. Ryan (edited 02-06-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoePrivate Posted February 6, 2001 Share Posted February 6, 2001 No, I haven't seen anything like you say but you never gave any specifics either. For example did the Stuh42 have any movement orders while area targeting? Do you have any friendly troops nearby the area target? Sure I will take a look at the files, the ones before and after if you have them, email is in the profile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoePrivate Posted February 6, 2001 Share Posted February 6, 2001 No, I haven't seen anything like you say but you never gave any specifics either. For example did the Stuh42 have any movement orders while area targeting? Do you have any friendly troops nearby the area target? Sure I will take a look at the files, the ones before and after if you have them, email is in the profile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarmo Posted February 6, 2001 Share Posted February 6, 2001 I had the same problem with one of the betas, but it seems to have disappeared with the final. To Ryan, I'm not sure if I understood you correctly, but it's impossible to area target a location you don't have LOS to. Except with mortars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarmo Posted February 6, 2001 Share Posted February 6, 2001 I had the same problem with one of the betas, but it seems to have disappeared with the final. To Ryan, I'm not sure if I understood you correctly, but it's impossible to area target a location you don't have LOS to. Except with mortars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Posted February 6, 2001 Share Posted February 6, 2001 See that guy in the white suit in the corner of the building across the street from the targeted building? That may be why it won't fire. I've seen it where an assault gun will stop an area fire in mid turn if a friendly unit moves near the target, but the area fire line remains. Although... from that angle is would appear the friendly should be far enough away to be safe. Maybe an overly causious AI. ------------------ You've never heard music until you've heard the bleating of a gut-shot cesspooler. -Mark IV [This message has been edited by Vanir (edited 02-06-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Posted February 6, 2001 Share Posted February 6, 2001 See that guy in the white suit in the corner of the building across the street from the targeted building? That may be why it won't fire. I've seen it where an assault gun will stop an area fire in mid turn if a friendly unit moves near the target, but the area fire line remains. Although... from that angle is would appear the friendly should be far enough away to be safe. Maybe an overly causious AI. ------------------ You've never heard music until you've heard the bleating of a gut-shot cesspooler. -Mark IV [This message has been edited by Vanir (edited 02-06-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dschugaschwili Posted February 6, 2001 Share Posted February 6, 2001 Originally posted by Pvt. Ryan: My understanding is that CM doesn't model gun elevation and depression limits. I think maybe the Stug doesn't really have LOS to that particular spot and won't fire - like when you area target with a mortar to a spot that is not within LOS. I am sure Scott already thought of this. I have had not noticed any problems myself. I'm pretty sure that CM does model gun elevation and depression limits. So this may well be the cause of the problem. Perhaps somebody should run a test on this subject (I can't do it myself now because I'm at work). Dschugaschwili Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dschugaschwili Posted February 6, 2001 Share Posted February 6, 2001 Originally posted by Pvt. Ryan: My understanding is that CM doesn't model gun elevation and depression limits. I think maybe the Stug doesn't really have LOS to that particular spot and won't fire - like when you area target with a mortar to a spot that is not within LOS. I am sure Scott already thought of this. I have had not noticed any problems myself. I'm pretty sure that CM does model gun elevation and depression limits. So this may well be the cause of the problem. Perhaps somebody should run a test on this subject (I can't do it myself now because I'm at work). Dschugaschwili Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarmo Posted February 6, 2001 Share Posted February 6, 2001 Originally posted by Dschugaschwili: I'm pretty sure that CM does model gun elevation and depression limits. I'm almost certain the limits are not modeled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarmo Posted February 6, 2001 Share Posted February 6, 2001 Originally posted by Dschugaschwili: I'm pretty sure that CM does model gun elevation and depression limits. I'm almost certain the limits are not modeled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest KwazyDog Posted February 6, 2001 Share Posted February 6, 2001 Hi Guys, Scott, thanks for pointing that one out The good news is that although it is a known bug that was very hard to replicate it is fixed in the next patch! Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest KwazyDog Posted February 6, 2001 Share Posted February 6, 2001 Hi Guys, Scott, thanks for pointing that one out The good news is that although it is a known bug that was very hard to replicate it is fixed in the next patch! Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurtz Posted February 6, 2001 Share Posted February 6, 2001 Originally posted by Dschugaschwili: I'm pretty sure that CM does model gun elevation and depression limits. No, it doesn't. The reason, IIRC, is that tanks could find themselves in positions where they couldn't fire unless they moved and that would be too complex and prone to "unwanted" movement. Or somefink like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurtz Posted February 6, 2001 Share Posted February 6, 2001 Originally posted by Dschugaschwili: I'm pretty sure that CM does model gun elevation and depression limits. No, it doesn't. The reason, IIRC, is that tanks could find themselves in positions where they couldn't fire unless they moved and that would be too complex and prone to "unwanted" movement. Or somefink like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Scott Clinton Posted February 6, 2001 Share Posted February 6, 2001 Originally posted by KwazyDog: Hi Guys, Scott, thanks for pointing that one out The good news is that although it is a known bug that was very hard to replicate it is fixed in the next patch! Dan Thanks guys, no matter what else, BTS & crew really does respond to concrete bugs when they can. And I (and others) appreciate it. :| As for elevation and depression I don’t think it is modeled in CM (Close Combat does). But regardless IIRCC this is the turn where (the one posted) where the AFV fired last turn, never moved and then refused to fire this turn on the same location (fire point never moved) and the AFV was targeting the second floor but after you ‘release’ the targeting line it always drops to the ground level. This happens even when the AFV ends up targeting the second floor. A minor issue graphical representation issue IMO. Lastly a general question: This is only the second PBEM game I have played as the Germans since the latest patch and I have run into this issue. Are you guys not playing with Stugs much or just not using area fire as much as me…or am I just unlucky that this bug only seems to like me?! But, "hard to replicate"?!?!? It happened to me three times in that game!? Damn, must be my "luck" kicking in again. Thanks again. ------------------ Please note: The above is solely the opinion of 'The Grumbling Grognard' and reflects no one else's views but his own. [This message has been edited by Scott Clinton (edited 02-06-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Scott Clinton Posted February 6, 2001 Share Posted February 6, 2001 Originally posted by KwazyDog: Hi Guys, Scott, thanks for pointing that one out The good news is that although it is a known bug that was very hard to replicate it is fixed in the next patch! Dan Thanks guys, no matter what else, BTS & crew really does respond to concrete bugs when they can. And I (and others) appreciate it. :| As for elevation and depression I don’t think it is modeled in CM (Close Combat does). But regardless IIRCC this is the turn where (the one posted) where the AFV fired last turn, never moved and then refused to fire this turn on the same location (fire point never moved) and the AFV was targeting the second floor but after you ‘release’ the targeting line it always drops to the ground level. This happens even when the AFV ends up targeting the second floor. A minor issue graphical representation issue IMO. Lastly a general question: This is only the second PBEM game I have played as the Germans since the latest patch and I have run into this issue. Are you guys not playing with Stugs much or just not using area fire as much as me…or am I just unlucky that this bug only seems to like me?! But, "hard to replicate"?!?!? It happened to me three times in that game!? Damn, must be my "luck" kicking in again. Thanks again. ------------------ Please note: The above is solely the opinion of 'The Grumbling Grognard' and reflects no one else's views but his own. [This message has been edited by Scott Clinton (edited 02-06-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pvt. Ryan Posted February 6, 2001 Share Posted February 6, 2001 Jarmo, I was just guessing. If I had read Scott's post carefully enough I would have known that wasn't the problem anyway, even if it was possible. Dan, what exactly is the bug here? Is that the StuH won't fire because the friendly is close by, or is it something else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pvt. Ryan Posted February 6, 2001 Share Posted February 6, 2001 Jarmo, I was just guessing. If I had read Scott's post carefully enough I would have known that wasn't the problem anyway, even if it was possible. Dan, what exactly is the bug here? Is that the StuH won't fire because the friendly is close by, or is it something else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest KwazyDog Posted February 7, 2001 Share Posted February 7, 2001 Thanks Scott, I like to be able to answer queries when I know the answer Ryan, to be totally honest Im not sure. I was the one whom found it when I was tinkering with some stugs. I believe it may have been a bug introduced when the hull rotation worked on by Charles, but I am not certain. That is one of the problems with making changes late in the development of a program. Its like the ripple effect of throwing a stone in a pool. One seemingly little change can have hundreds of effects, many which may be unexpected. Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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