Editing vehicles into prohibited terrain (e.g. rubble)

[Brent Pollock]

I couldn't find anything about this topic using the search engine, so here goes...

I've found that you can actually get vehicles into rubble/building/woods/etc. terrain in the scenario editor using the following procedure:

1. make the map but without the rubble/etc. tile, preferably using an obvious placeholder like a non-deep ford;

2. do the unit purchases;

3. place the vehicle on the spot where you plan on placing the rubble/etc.;

4. edit the tile to rubble/etc.;

5. view it and - voila - you've got a vehicle in rubble/etc.

Such vehicles seem to be affected normally by LOS rules and may still fire if they've a LOS. They may also rotate their chassis and turret. However, they may not move forward/backward...although I haven't tried getting them set up precisely at the edge so that they might hit permissible terrain (e.g. open ground) as soon as they try to move.

It seems like a useful tool for anyone trying to simulate a defender that had enough time to move their vehicles into confining terrain.

[manchildstein (ii)]

for the newbies: you can do this with guns too

[ January 17, 2003, 06:08 PM: Message edited by: manchildstein II ]

[Brent Pollock]

And now the update: I've tried to fine tune this in CMAK by getting the vehicles as near the edge as possible. I purchased a five tank platoon and had the terrain type set to Grain so I could estimate the edge and have it sand out in the editor. Next, I placed all five as close to the edge as I could get, then edited the terrain to somthing prohibited (buildings, rubble, marsh , deep ford, etc.).

When I played it, I was able to have vehicles reverse out of the prohibited terrain, so it can be done. I can send the Battle file if anyone's interested.

So, it appears that we can mimic vehicles setting up with their nose in the terrain type, with an escape route. Or, we could mimic a unit starting in a prohibited terrain type that it has been slowly chewing through prior to game start.

[Hans]

you can put mines, bunkers and most anything into any such terrain using this technique

[Brent Pollock]

Sorry - forgot to mention that I knew that already.

My main concern herein is with vehicles, especially their ability to leave the prohibited terrain once they've been placed in it. Otherwise, they end up being de facto Dug In AFVs.

I wouldn't be overly concerned with towed guns, since they rarely get moved once the action is on.

Another aspect of this I have yet to check is the fate of such mobile units if they have not left the prohibited terrain by the end of a Battle that is part of an Operation.

[Tom Murphy]

I have one scenario in play testing right now that I placed T-34s in the rubble of the Barrikady Gun Factory. Works real well. In another scenario called Kursk-Tigers on the Farm... I buried a AT gun in the rubble. Its a nice effect that I plan on using more often.

[Tom Murphy]

I have one scenario in play testing right now that I placed T-34s in the rubble of the Barrikady Gun Factory. Works real well. In another scenario called Kursk-Tigers on the Farm... I buried a AT gun in the rubble. Its a nice effect that I plan on using more often.

Make sure you let the player now in the briefing that if they remove them from the rubble during set-up, they can't put them back in the rubble.

[Brent Pollock]

Yes, too bad "Dug In AFVs" doesn't also permit their placement in prohibited terrain.

Since we're placing spoilers, the very first time I encountered this design technique was in Pavlov's House - lost a Pz III to the ATG set up in the building...a complete ambush I wasn't prepared for...bloody marvelous piece of scenario design.

Originally posted by Tom Murphy:

I have one scenario in play testing right now that I placed T-34s in the rubble of the Barrikady Gun Factory. Works real well. In another scenario called Kursk-Tigers on the Farm... I buried a AT gun in the rubble. Its a nice effect that I plan on using more often.

Make sure you let the player now in the briefing that if they remove them from the rubble during set-up, they can't put them back in the rubble.

[Mad Russian]

Originally posted by Tom Murphy:

I have one scenario in play testing right now that I placed T-34s in the rubble of the Barrikady Gun Factory. Works real well. In another scenario called Kursk-Tigers on the Farm... I buried a AT gun in the rubble. Its a nice effect that I plan on using more often.

Make sure you let the player now in the briefing that if they remove them from the rubble during set-up, they can't put them back in the rubble.

Usually if I put something in restricted terrain I lock it in so it can't be taken out. The whole idea of putting it in there in the first place is that I wanted it there...

Panther Commander