Victory and morale levels at game start

[Binkie]

So I'm noticing that the last few games I've started, there have been significant deltas in morale and victory levels right off the bat, first turn orders phase. Like how can my opponent have a victory percentage when we both have the same number of points, and neither of us control flags? And the same with morale. How is it that I started one game with only 83% morale?

[CMplayer]

You can start with reduced morale if you have split squads, I believe.

[Juju]

Your opponent can start with a positive victory percentage if you're playing a scenario where one side has been given an advantage by the designer (in the editor) for play balance purposes.

[ 11-04-2001: Message edited by: Juju ]</p>

[Binkie]

Ah yes, that explains the morale...I had a company worth of split squads in that game!

But what about the victory issue? I think I've seen this three times now and all were on meeting engagement QBs, so the scenario design possibility is out. It may have been, IIRC, that my opponents starting victory level was the inverse of my morale. Could they be related? Does lower morale give your opponent victory points?

[Juju]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Binkie:

I think I've seen this three times now and all were on meeting engagement QBs, so the scenario design possibility is out. It may have been, IIRC, that my opponents starting victory level was the inverse of my morale. Could they be related? Does lower morale give your opponent victory points?<hr></blockquote>

I just checked, and yes, your opponent gets victory points if you a least start your battle with a lowered morale due to split squads.

Edit: I'm betting these victory points are temporarily. If you would rejoin all your squads in turn 2 I assume the opponent's victory point advantage would be gone. How this works exactly I couldn't say.

[ 11-04-2001: Message edited by: Juju ]</p>

[Binkie]

Thanks, Juju. Seems like this is more of a bug than a feature!

I know that split squads don't behave as well as full squads, but to penalize unmolested troops with such a significant global morale hit seems unfair. And the victory points consequence is simply baffling.

[Redwolf]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Juju:

I just checked, and yes, your opponent gets victory points if you a least start your battle with a lowered morale due to split squads.

<hr></blockquote>

Well, you can see victory percentages, but you don't know how many points that are. Did you try to evaluate how many points these represent?

[CombinedArms]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe there's one other factor that can affect victory points at startup: i.e. if the scenario requires one side's units to "Exit for Points".

As I understand it, as long as those units are not exited, they show up as victory points for the other side. Is it true that those points go over to YOUR side whenever a unit is exited--showing up as a plus in you victory column? Or do you just get back to zero by exiting units? I've never clearly understood this. Is it better to leave at least a few units on board to hold VLs, if all units should be exited?

I believe, BTW, that the game engine assesses morale by looking at the number of casualties in a squad. It sees split squads as two squads that have suffered 50% losses. Hence the global morale hit. I'm not sure if it counts infantry casualties in the same way. If so, you'd never want to END a scenario with your squads split.

[ 11-06-2001: Message edited by: CombinedArms ]</p>

[Redwolf]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by CombinedArms:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe there's one other factor that can affect victory points at startup: i.e. if the scenario requires one side's units to "Exit for Points".

As I understand it, as long as those units are not exited, they show up as victory points for the other side.

<hr></blockquote>

No, they bring extra points for you when you exit them and they bring extra points for the opponent when he knocks them out (in addition to the normal kill points), but as long as they are intact on the map, they don't give points to anyone.

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>

I believe, BTW, that the game engine assesses morale by looking at the number of casualties in a squad. It sees split squads as two squads that have suffered 50% losses. Hence the global morale hit. I'm not sure if it counts infantry casualties in the same way. If so, you'd never want to END a scenario with your squads split.

<hr></blockquote>

That sounds like a game bug and it is even worse.

As I have seen, you get 20% victory level on start of a scenario with one 120 points US platoon splitted into half-squads and a 300 points flag.

That means that splitting the squads brought 75 point to the opponent. That is even more than loosing half the men in the squads.

[Binkie]

Hmmm, this sounds worse and worse. Anyone know if BTS has mentioned awareness of this and/or planning for adjustments in CMBB?

[Redwolf]

I am now at my computer and yes this is an easily reproducable bug. Just go into hotseat, split in setup and ceasefire while the flags are neutral.

You get the points back when you rejoin, though, but I assume that they are permanently lost if the "a" part of the squad is killed.

I am not sure why you get 75 points penality for the 120 points US rifle platoon, it should be rather 50 or so if the bug is that half of the infantrymen count as knocked out (but not the HQ). This may be because the BAR is the the "b" part of the split squad.

Also strange is that the opponent sometimes gets an update in his victory % display and sometimes not (he can spot Infantry?, not even that it is a squad).

What is the correct email for BTS bug reports?

[ 11-06-2001: Message edited by: redwolf ]</p>