Tanks Firing AP at Infantry??

[PantherGunner]

Anybody seen this before? I was playing a QB against the AI and I manually targeted some infantry with a Hetzer (which only AP rounds left) and saw the ammo ticker count down as it fired AP at infantry. Tried this on subsequent turns as well. I've got a saved game if BTS wants it.

[Guest ciks]

It's not a bug of some kind. Tanks always fire AP shells at infantry when out of HE. But I cant remeber if i've seen any of AP shells cause some damage to little pixel boys. Although they do pin them down sometimes.

[Head Mahone]

That's because you selected the "Use Main Gun" option and were out of HE shells....

-Head

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"I don't need my junkie friends all knockin' at my door. I just wanna do an old time waltz with a buxom Irish whore!"

-Shane MacGowan

[This message has been edited by Head Mahone (edited 03-28-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Head Mahone (edited 03-28-2001).]

[Jarmo]

AP does cause casualties now and then. But that doesn't really explain why AI often prefers to use it instead of MG, even with plenty of MG ammo. Especially obvious with Daimler, as it has no HE.

[Schugger]

Originally posted by Jarmo:

AP does cause casualties now and then. But that doesn't really explain why AI often prefers to use it instead of MG, even with plenty of MG ammo. Especially obvious with Daimler, as it has no HE.

Really? My tanks fire the MG's along with their main gun when I select the "Use main gun" option - unless it is the crappy Hetzer which seems to be unable to use it's remote controlled dingsbums and a Jagdpanzer IV which couldn't fire it's hull mounted MG when he's hull down.

[Jarmo]

Originally posted by Schugger:

Really? My tanks fire the MG's along with their main gun

Both MG's? They fire the bow MG all the time, but I'm certain

the coaxial is only fired if the main gun is not...

..at least I think I'm sure... sort of..

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Now, would this brilliant plan involve us climbing out of

our trenches and walking slowly towards the enemy sir?

[Olle Petersson]

Hetzer; has very little MG ammo to start with, only 15 rds IIRC. Since it's a TD it's also short on HE.

Once it runs out of HE and MG ammo, it starts using AP against any target, just as any other AFV in CM would do...

Lesson learned: Avoid using Hetzers (or other TDs) agaist soft targets! (That's the job for assault guns and tanks...)

Cheers

Olle

[Schugger]

Originally posted by Jarmo:

Both MG's? They fire the bow MG all the time, but I'm certain

the coaxial is only fired if the main gun is not...

..at least I think I'm sure... sort of..

And you are of course right, Jarmo. For some reason this slipped past my attention; tanks using their main gun do not fire theír coax MGs - silly me

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Turret down

Hull down

Track down

Pants down

[ADAman]

I've got a book on the Bulge where it describes using 37mm solid shot on infantry. They managed to score a hit with predictable results (he should have worn a flak jacket - would have made the clean up easier).

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Air Defense: Shoot 'em down, sort 'em out on the ground (AKA - if it flies, it dies)

[CombinedArms]

My experience is that firing AP rounds at infantry will cause few (though occasionally some) casualties, but it does seem to encourage them to break and run on occasion. This also seems true for zooks and fausts.

Anyway, when there are no enemy AFVs left, why not use your AP rounds on infantry? As suggested, it does seem to do SOME good. (In general, I seem to run out of HE much more often than AP, though Shermans have some much of both they rarely run out of either.)

[Stefan Fredriksson]

A somewhat related question: do AFVs in CM battle-carry rounds?

ie, do they always ride with a round up the breach, or do they load when target is spotted and determined?

[BloodyBucket]

Maybe you can peek inside the vehicle and watch what the crew does?

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"Roll on"

[Jarmo]

Originally posted by Stefan Fredriksson:

A somewhat related question: do AFVs in CM battle-carry rounds?

Yup, the guns are always ready fire. The funny thing is, it is only decided whether there's AP or HE loaded when it's time to fire.

[Stefan Fredriksson]

Thanks Jarmo. That was what I was looking for. As far as I know, in modern tanks, you do not unload an already breached round. You fire it at the target no matter what, then TC orders new type of round.

Did one in ww2 unload breached rounds? Otherwise I would like to see a Panther with already loaded HE fire that first, even if it is shooting at a Pershing.

ie, some sort of standard, TDs always have AP as standard first round, SPGs always having HE as default round... etc.

No big deal really, but it could change quite a few outcomes tank-vs-tank

Ref BB:

Yes, I tried that, but the little buggers kept slamming their hatches in my face!

[This message has been edited by Stefan Fredriksson (edited 03-29-2001).]

[tss]

Stefan Fredriksson wrote:

Did one in ww2 unload breached rounds?

I'd say that would depend on an occasion. If the crew believed that spending time to unload the gun would be more dangerous than revealing the position by firing unsuitable ammo, they would fire the round.

Actually, throughout the history of guns, the gun crews have preferred emptying the barrels by firing them while the commanders would want them to unload them nicely.

One related example on this happened during my grandfather's first battle as an infantryman (Särkisyrjä, 18th-22nd July 1941). The war diary of the heavy 152mm howitzer batallion (28th Rask.Psto) that supported them on the attack shows that one of their fire missions was halted before all guns had fired their first rounds. (It doesn't say why, probably the spotting rounds fell too close to own lines as it was a very difficult artillery terrain (forested hills)). The diary then mentions that the loaded guns were emptied by firing them as harrasment to Soviet rear areas.

- Tommi

[tss]

Olle Petersson wrote:

]Hetzer; has very little MG ammo to start with, only 15 rds IIRC. Since it's a TD it's also short on HE.

And short of AP also. In one recent game my Hetzer run out of ammo before the enemy run out of tanks and started shooting HE at them. At that point I called it quits and withdrew the Hetzer out of map. Here's a screenshot of its kill list moments before it exited the map: