SGT_Gold Posted July 3, 2001 Share Posted July 3, 2001 When I was in Germany I saw what I knew was an ambulance being used for ammunition resupply. The medical vehicles all had different roofs that made them impossible to misidentify. Being an MP, I asked the observer if that wasn't the biggest violation of the rules of war he had ever seen. He replied that as long as the red cross is hidden from view, the vehicle was a combatant. I looked it up and it's the insignia, not the type of vehicle that conveys protection. During field problems the OPFOR used to drive up to our aid stations in a marked red cross vehicle, open the rear doors, and open fire. I got my ass in a sling for arguing that using a red cross vehicle for combat action voided the protection. I won my arguement, but I got in a little trouble for lighting up an ambulance later in the exercise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redmow Posted July 3, 2001 Share Posted July 3, 2001 Your friend must be mistaken or he is exaggerating...snipers are not trained to be used so flippantly. They are trained to slowly (over the course of hours upon hours) make their way to a sniping position (which is not obvious but would increase chances of success) for a definite kill without being detected. Their targets tend to be of high priority (expensive to train these guys...not to be used in flippant, wasteful manners). High commanders, political figures or just plain extremely dangerous people. On the battlefield, they are trained to creep into enemy territory and stake their target out for the right moment...their target being a divisional commander or higher. Snipers are attached personnel. They tend to be at the command of Corp leaders or higher. The future of sniping is grisly...smart bullets with a monofilament wire that can be guided long distances by the firer...even laser guided bullets(requires a team of snipers). Tank killing bullets that can also be guided in similar ways. Their is even talk in certain military circles that the tank will one day become obsolete. But that is another discussion. Later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcm1947 Posted July 3, 2001 Author Share Posted July 3, 2001 tero Member Member # 2130 posted 07-01-2001 12:12 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >If we have a "typical" sniper who only >shoots a couple of times at HQ's during an >engagement, it'll be dirt cheap. >Or would it be something that can wipe out >a whole HQ team just like that? Sorry Tero I was thinking you had said this I guess you were copying it from someone elses comments. I do agree with it whoever said it. They would I suppose be cheap for the amount of damage they could do. Tero you asked why use them in your lineup. Well, I play a lot of just infantry games so I enjoy using sharpshooters to see what I can get them to do. It's fun trying to kill a MG nest or officer with one. Just something different I guess. As far as who did not honour the red cross sign I have no idea but never heard of us doing that and no I would not shoot at a medic or other unarmed man even in combat. Yeah I know you may be thinking yeah right, but It's true. Just me maybe, but no couldn't do it and wouldn't want to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juha Ahoniemi Posted July 3, 2001 Share Posted July 3, 2001 Redmow, I think You mean my friend and his statement of spiper's priorities, right? Well as I said that priority was strictly UNOFFICIAL (told by his instructor kind of "off the record") and therefore You don't necessarily hear it from ALL military instructors who are training snipers. This kind of activity can be done near the front, but not deep in enemy's back so it might fall into category on "sharpshooting" more than "sniping" - although his training aimed to be a sniper I believe. lcm1947 I believe You when You say that You won't shoot unarmed red cross guys - but when I looked Your profile I saw where You live, and it's hard to imaginate any kind of foreign aggression to Your home. As I said this kind of activity is only option if war is total and Your homeland, maybe Your own home, is threaten. You must remember that where I come from we don't practise large scale military operations aboard (peace-keeping operations of course are different matter, less use for sniper I think!). All the training we get is aimed to defend our homes, literally. That is a must since we (Finns) aren't in any kind of military assistance treaty such as NATO (at least not yet). This may soud a little rough, But in some point think one who defens his home is allowed to use ALMOST any means necessary. BTW Slobodan and Saddam werent defending their homes but their power so please not any kind of argument about that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slapdragon Posted July 3, 2001 Share Posted July 3, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SGT_Gold: When I was in Germany I saw what I knew was an ambulance being used for ammunition resupply. The medical vehicles all had different roofs that made them impossible to misidentify. Being an MP, I asked the observer if that wasn't the biggest violation of the rules of war he had ever seen. He replied that as long as the red cross is hidden from view, the vehicle was a combatant. I looked it up and it's the insignia, not the type of vehicle that conveys protection. During field problems the OPFOR used to drive up to our aid stations in a marked red cross vehicle, open the rear doors, and open fire. I got my ass in a sling for arguing that using a red cross vehicle for combat action voided the protection. I won my arguement, but I got in a little trouble for lighting up an ambulance later in the exercise.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> The issue of the red cross and red crescent has been argued for the past 10 years or more and has been on the table far longer. During the Korean War, the red cross was ignored by the North Koreans and Chinese, but honored generally by the UN. In Vietnam, the US AND the NVA / VC gleefully ignored medical evacuation, and the NVA stopped bothering with the markings since Napalm strikes rarely stopped in mid drop. During the Arab Isrealy conflict it became at times a "shoot me" symbol. It is almost like the red cross and crescent is not by default not honored. Few insurgent groups honor it, it is almost a dead letter in the far east, and it is dead in Africa. NATO honored it during their fight with Yugoslavia, except for accidents, and the UN honored it in Desert Storm although Iraq did not. It was also honored in the Falklands by both sides. Most NATO countries now arm medics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcm1947 Posted July 5, 2001 Author Share Posted July 5, 2001 Thank you Slapdragon for informing me that most NATO countries now arm thier medic's. I did not know that and am very disappointed personally. Strange times these are or maybe it's just me getting older. To Juha Ahoniemi: I see your point my friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juha Ahoniemi Posted July 5, 2001 Share Posted July 5, 2001 This is just in - We don't need snipers! I am playing PBEM game with my friend and the following happened: My veteran shapshooter saw ugly sherman jumbo with cocky commander unbuttoned. He decided to end that sorry bastards life and took one shot at him. "aaargh" said that commander and after some change of information with my opponent, it was a confirmed kill. What was the range You may wonder - well nothing special, just 541 meters... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorBeef Posted July 5, 2001 Share Posted July 5, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LC-: I agree with the argument that in war there is no rules. In the pacific theater during WWII the marine medics would always get rid of their big red medics crosses. Its just asking for trouble when you walk around with bright colors looking important during a jungle war where camoflague is a major tactical advantage. All I know is if I were in that position, I would take my red cross off too. and I certainly wouldnt want a medic who still wore the red cross near me if we were setting an ambush or something. War isnt about playing fair. Hopefully there will be less and less war.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Actually, this comes from the fact that the Japanese specifically targetted medics above other soldiers. They found it best not to mark yourself specifically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanns Posted July 5, 2001 Share Posted July 5, 2001 When I was in the US Army in the early nineties, I got to participate in a Bn level sniper course. I was the guy who drove everyone out to the range so I always got to shoot and usually after everyone was gone, we'd burn up all the excess ammo Each company was issued one M24 sniper rifle (match grade Remington 700 bolt action with a 4x14 power scope). I'm not a insanely good shot but from a good sandbag rest I could consistantly hit a 600m target and managed to hit the 1200m target twice out of maybe 20 shots. Not a realistic range (targets were painted white to show up) or would I want to try it under combat conditions but definitely do-able by even me My old bolt action Mauser K98 (model 1940) was a superb deer rifle, such a good design that almost all modern bolt action deer rifles and sniper rifles are based on it. Something to be said about a 130 year old design that's still going strong and has seen only cosmetic improvement over the years. I've taken deer out to 200m with open ramp sights quite easily and the best ever was about 350m. The ramped sights went to 1200m but with a relatively crude ramp and post site this is only even to be considered on a company size level firing en masse at a group target. Still, very optimistic though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigmac@work Posted July 6, 2001 Share Posted July 6, 2001 I find that my unassigned Sharpshooters will only automatically target TC's. My MG'ers OTOH, do as you say Jarmo. I always leave them unassigned. Allow them to pick a target (that I know will be an HQ/Mortar/AT team/spotter...etc...., when in a target rich environment) THEN use my Sharpshooter to target the MG'er target. Works every time! Bigmac out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarmo Posted July 6, 2001 Share Posted July 6, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bigmac@work: I find that my unassigned Sharpshooters will only automatically target TC's.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Dang! I'm sure it worked at some point. But I've been known to err before.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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