M Hofbauer Posted February 10, 2001 Share Posted February 10, 2001 sorry to hear that Stoffel, hope you're doing fine. There'll be brighter days ahead...whjy don't you tzake a hot tea/coffee and make yourself comfortable in front of the PC with a game of CM :0) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoffel Posted February 10, 2001 Share Posted February 10, 2001 mwah all my muscles do hurt even ones at places where you never tought there would be muscles. A light percussion too. I haven't had many sleep last night.My head and neck hurts to much.All I did was play CM with coffee and ammaretto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russellmz Posted February 10, 2001 Share Posted February 10, 2001 you can get classical music over napster too. most of the people who d/l games illegally from warez are the ones who actually play them and have t1 connections(college students). after all, it can take hours to get a DEMO over a 56k modem. and if they don't get it from napster, they can get it from warez sites. so i don't worry too much about game downloading anyway since not many people have t1s. ------------------ russellmz, Self-Proclaimed Keeper for Life of the Sacred Unofficial FAQ. "They had their chance- they have not lead!" - GW Bush "They had mechanical pencils- they have not...lead?" - Jon Stewart on The Daily Show Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunny Bunny Posted February 10, 2001 Share Posted February 10, 2001 Originally posted by Tiger: Ok a bit off topic but after enjoying all the hard work BTS has put into CMBO, this just makes me mad as hell. Seems Napster is going to get into games as well. Now you won't even have to pay people like Charles, Steve and Co. for their hard work, as everything should be free for download.... Now we all know that nobody wants to sit through several hundred megs of downloading a game, but with today's high-speed access services is this really a problem? What if Napster includes a resumable-download for this? Yes, you information does not sound inaccurate. Napster shall attempt to force gaming companies to pay them to charge for downloads. 700 megs, a cable modem at 500K per minute can download that quick as a bunny ! What I would like to see is movie downloads, every movie you could ever want categorized and searchable, maybe $ 2.00 each, good price and a great deal, just like Amazon.com and books ! Regards Gunny Bunny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Commissar Posted February 10, 2001 Share Posted February 10, 2001 --- "And who is the judge on whether the people you steal from are "innovative"? you? That's like someone saying: "In only kill people who deserve to be killed." --- Yes indeed. Im the one downloading, right? I dont make others do it. So, I am in turn deciding whether the product is innovative/creative enough for me to actually spend money on to support the publishers. Will I blow $45 Id rather use elsewhere on the latest RTS/Action/Tomb Raider clone? No. Will I d/l it to play a few rounds with my buddies and then probably end up erasing it from my HD? Yes. My money goes to those who deserve it, and I will be the judge of who I think deserves it. You have a different opinion? Good for you. ------------------ "...Every position, every meter of Soviet soil must be defended to the last drop of blood..." - Segment from Order 227 "Not a step back" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col Deadmarsh Posted February 10, 2001 Share Posted February 10, 2001 Don't mean to target Chup here but there was about 20 people I wanted to quote but for time limitations, won't. So, I'll just quote Chup and make my statement out of what he said: Don't kid yourself, folks, downloading illegal MP3s does **** up the business model, and it does hurt people who don't deserve it. It is stealing, and it is wrong. Hey Chup, ever make somebody a mix tape of your favorite songs? Before a couple of years ago when burners became cheap enough for the public to buy, this is what people did, right. Nobody seemed to have a problem with it back then so I find it interesting that people have a problem with it now. Downloading these songs off of Napster is the same thing. It's someone sharing their favorite music with you. You also mentioned that it hurts small bands. I disagree with this. These bands might never be heard by anyone outside their home town if it wasn't for Napster. With this technology, they are now accessible to people around the world! Yes, it's true that some people might just download a single off a band's album without ever buying the entire album but I think the fact that millions of new people are introduced to this band makes up for it. Aside from Mettalica, (not a small band as we all know) a lot of these bands and musicians who haven't hit it big are all for this. They realize the potential here. For someone to come on and say, "This is wrong" is most probably a hypocritical statement. After all, the average person has probably either taped something for someone else or accepted a tape from someone else in their lifetime. Besides the better quality (which isn't the issue here) how is this different than putting that music on CD's? With this being said, I do find myself feeling guilty when I download a game. After all, I will probably not end up purchasing that game, even if I like it. Frankly, I'm glad to support BTS because of their groundbreaking support and time they put into this game. Would I feel the same way about Atomic who wouldn't listen to anyone when we complained about what was wrong with their product and never bothered to fix it? Let's face it, there is no right or wrong here. There are only shades of grey and each person has to make their own decision about who they're helping and who they're hurting. ------------------ Youth is wasted on the young. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philistine Posted February 10, 2001 Share Posted February 10, 2001 Originally posted by Bruno Weiss: {snip} While the courts have shown an inclination to look the other way over alleged copyright violations involving the "sharing" of, or "giving freely" of copyright materials, loosely based upon an interpretation of the clauses of the law (i.e., the right to preview, review, comment upon, etc.,), those clauses do not apply where one is intentionally making a profit from someone else's copyright material. {snip} Actually, I don't think the courtshave looked the other way over copyright violations that did not involve charging a fee. Rather it has been the copyright owners who have generally "looked the other way," primarily (IMHO) because the stakes were so small and any damages (or ability to collect) would be extremely limited. Now, because of the massive potential distribution of the internet (Napster, Warez sites, etc.), I think owners are (or will be) more inclined to try to shut down (by suit or threat of suit) more sites. Just my $.02 --Philistine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col Deadmarsh Posted February 10, 2001 Share Posted February 10, 2001 mwah all my muscles do hurt even ones at places where you never tought there would be muscles. A light percussion too. Hey Stoffel, Don't you know that percussion isn't good for your concussion... ------------------ Youth is wasted on the young. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanco Posted February 11, 2001 Share Posted February 11, 2001 This is gonna get locked up soon so I'll chuck my 2 cents in before it does. BTW, I've been a professional musician for 20 years, and have probably played more than 3000 live gigs. Until the advent on the phonograph record, the idea of owning music was unheard of, and unthinkable. Only when music became easily reproducible did the idea of music copyright become widely accepted. The idea of becoming rich from playing or writing music is a relatively recent one, historically speaking, and only due to an advanced technological state. So there have been musicians throughout history making music, the great music that has come down to us today, and the musicians writing this music were not making millions off of it. Yet despite this, music flourished and didn't die out, despite the difficulty in making a living at it. Why? Because musicians (true musicians, not N'Sync) are first and foremost interested in making music, and everything else, including money, is pretty much a distant second. They have a drive to make music that poverty can slow down, but cannot stop entirely. This drive carried them through that fallow period between 3000 BC till 1900 AD , when phonograph records were finally invented and musicians could start getting rich from making music. So my point is, should the balance of power shift, and pirated music become the norm, and musicians be once again unable to earn a living, then the production of musical works by musicians (true musicians, not N'Sync) will perhaps be slowed by the economic situation, but never stopped entirely. An interviewer asked some rapper, I forget who, what he thought of music sharing on the Internet, and he said, "Well, maybe in the future, musicians won't make their money like that anymore. Maybe live performance will be how musicians survive." Final thoughts: How much money does a songwriter deserve for writing a song? "Your Cheating Heart", Hank Williams. There are about 17 words in the whole song, and 4 chords. Yet, it is a monument, a masterpiece. I think it's a masterpiece. And I think Hank deserves tons of money for that, lots and lots and lots of money. But I can promise you he wrote the thing at the kitchen table at 3 am, in about 45 minutes all told. Now... how much is that song worth? 45 minutes at the kitchen table, or a lifetime of distilling experience and learning about life to be able to express himself that way? As you can see, there is a case to be made for both sides. But I don't think anything could have stopped Hank from writing that song in the first place. It just had to come out. ------------------ DeanCo-- CM interface mods: http://mapage.cybercable.fr/deanco/ so many games...so little time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russellmz Posted February 11, 2001 Share Posted February 11, 2001 excellent post deanco! ------------------ russellmz, Self-Proclaimed Keeper for Life of the Sacred Unofficial FAQ. "They had their chance- they have not lead!" - GW Bush "They had mechanical pencils- they have not...lead?" - Jon Stewart on The Daily Show Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted February 11, 2001 Share Posted February 11, 2001 Originally posted by deanco: This is gonna get locked up soon so I'll chuck my 2 cents in before it does. BTW, I've been a professional musician for 20 years, and have probably played more than 3000 live gigs. Until the advent on the phonograph record, the idea of owning music was unheard of, and unthinkable. Only when music became easily reproducible did the idea of music copyright become widely accepted. The idea of becoming rich from playing or writing music is a relatively recent one, historically speaking, and only due to an advanced technological state. So there have been musicians throughout history making music, the great music that has come down to us today, and the musicians writing this music were not making millions off of it. Yet despite this, music flourished and didn't die out, despite the difficulty in making a living at it. Why? Because musicians (true musicians, not N'Sync) are first and foremost interested in making music, and everything else, including money, is pretty much a distant second. They have a drive to make music that poverty can slow down, but cannot stop entirely. This drive carried them through that fallow period between 3000 BC till 1900 AD , when phonograph records were finally invented and musicians could start getting rich from making music. So my point is, should the balance of power shift, and pirated music become the norm, and musicians be once again unable to earn a living, then the production of musical works by musicians (true musicians, not N'Sync) will perhaps be slowed by the economic situation, but never stopped entirely. An interviewer asked some rapper, I forget who, what he thought of music sharing on the Internet, and he said, "Well, maybe in the future, musicians won't make their money like that anymore. Maybe live performance will be how musicians survive." Final thoughts: How much money does a songwriter deserve for writing a song? "Your Cheating Heart", Hank Williams. There are about 17 words in the whole song, and 4 chords. Yet, it is a monument, a masterpiece. I think it's a masterpiece. And I think Hank deserves tons of money for that, lots and lots and lots of money. But I can promise you he wrote the thing at the kitchen table at 3 am, in about 45 minutes all told. Now... how much is that song worth? 45 minutes at the kitchen table, or a lifetime of distilling experience and learning about life to be able to express himself that way? As you can see, there is a case to be made for both sides. But I don't think anything could have stopped Hank from writing that song in the first place. It just had to come out. What do rappers and musicians have to do with each other? I was a "professional musician" of another sort - professional in the technical sense of the word - I got paid for it. Specifically by the Army, playing in a military band. Never gave any thought to making money at it; I did compose one or two little tunes that have never been published. Would be nice to see them printed someday, but it's no biggie to me. There have been some very interesting comments here that have been very eye opening. I keep thinking of what professional sports figures are paid - the 250 million dollar contract for the guy to wear tight pants and play a kid's game, for example. The fact that professional sports stadiums usually price their seats so prohibitively that "average" fans can't see professional sports anymore - and the stadiums that are increasingly geared towards corporate boxes rather than general seating. But I digress! Regardless of whether Steve and Charles are millionaires, they have the same basic rights as the rest of us do - to make money at what they do, and not to be stolen from or have their livelihood jeapordized by thievery. There are good arguments that free downloads help generate interest in products. That is why artists - be they musicians, or software makers - provide free downloads. I don't think it should be up to third parties to pirate another person or groups' "merchandise", as it were, and offer them up as free demos. Musicians should be able to decide to do that for themselves, just as BTS (wisely) decided to release a demo of their game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
:USERNAME: Posted February 11, 2001 Share Posted February 11, 2001 I was once at a bar and made a spider out of a book of matches. It wasnt a great spider but it was my origional work. Someone took it. They used it to entertain some young thing at the bar. I felt like that justified my using deadly force. It took all of two minutes twiddling to make that spider. Dudnt matter. It was my spider. Now, if I had worked on something for two years, and vermin were swarming and and taking that something faster than I could crush the life out of each of them, then torture is just too good for scum like that. What irks me is the attitudes. Its completely thoughtless what most petty thieves do. Not so with these filching online putzes. They have grand justifications and highly touted opinions on why its OK to steal from anyone. Cant you all just be thieving lowlifes and be quiet about it? Thanks Lewis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfrost Posted February 11, 2001 Share Posted February 11, 2001 Touche', Deanco! Good post. Mudfrost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Commissar Posted February 11, 2001 Share Posted February 11, 2001 I must also add that for games, unlike MP3's, d/l ing the game in its entirety is more difficult. For a game like CM, this is not the case. For an RPG or a complex Action game (yes, those exist) its much harder. Not only are they larger, there are many things the warez d/l's dont post. Like movies included, for example. Music is often thrown out. It all has to be d/l'ed seperately. To be perfectly honest, Ive never d/l'ed a complete warez game. I have not the connection nor the patience. My cheap friend (yes, my actual friend, not me) however, who really cant buy games on a regular basis has to put up with it since its the only way he'll get to play. I dont bug him about it, but I dont get all happy-dappy when he tells me some game I wanted to play for a while finally showed up on a warez site. I'll buy the thing, just for the whole "experience". There's just something about going to the store, plopping down your hard earned cash, and opening that box with all the goodies inside. Ah, I remember the good ol' days when games had goodies inside. Now we've got CM and we dont need no stinkin' goodies! I miss it sometimes, though... Uhh, anyway, thats my rant. Lewis had his turn, damnit! ------------------ "...Every position, every meter of Soviet soil must be defended to the last drop of blood..." - Segment from Order 227 "Not a step back" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoffel Posted February 11, 2001 Share Posted February 11, 2001 Lol, You see now how bad you can suffer from a concussion , Did I really said percussion? Or maybe it is an early beginning of a mad cow disease Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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