Maximus Posted July 22, 2001 Share Posted July 22, 2001 From Talonsoft's East Front II, it reports that a IS-2 Stalin only had the ammo capacity for 28 rounds. Is this true and will it be that way in CMBB? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vergeltungswaffe Posted July 22, 2001 Share Posted July 22, 2001 All the sources I have read agree that the 122mm armed models had stowage for 28 rounds. I'm sure BTS will correctly model this. I also hope that they will make the default loadouts with a high percentage of HE, as they historically were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snake Eyes Posted July 22, 2001 Share Posted July 22, 2001 The IS-2 carried 28 two-piece rounds; typically 10 were AP. Not to fear though, with a rate of fire of 2-3 rounds a minute, you should have enough ammo for a normal game. [ 07-22-2001: Message edited by: Snake Eyes ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar Posted July 22, 2001 Share Posted July 22, 2001 Yeah, only 28 rounds. However, those 28 rounds are going to be doozies especially the HE rounds. What it lacks in numbers, it makes up in effect. Although the 28 rounds do sound scanty, I've found that in an average 30 turn battle, 28 rounds is sufficient. Not wonderful, but with judicious use it shouldn't be too much of a problem. Another thing about the East Front's Unit Handbook, it states that the IS-2's cannon could hit with such force that it would shear the turret off enemy tanks. I've heard of the ISU-152 doing this to Panther turrets but I've never read an account of IS-2s doing this. the 122mm was a very powerful gun so it wouldn't surprise me but I've never read an account stating so. Anyone know of any sources? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted July 23, 2001 Author Share Posted July 23, 2001 Yeah I agree. Even though 28 rounds does sound scanty, I suppose that for an average length game it should be adequate. Especially given that we're talking about a 122mm shell here. That's almost like a Hummel except in a full blown MBT. But as for its HE and AP load-out, I'm not so sure as to the Soft and Hard Target ratings it has in East Front. It is definately used in a Hard Target roll. The Su-122 is what is used for Soft Targets while the Su-152 seems to have decent values for both. Speaking of the Campaign series though, has anyone made any CM scenarios from West Front scenarios? I attempted to, but I found it difficult to convert the hex grid into the square grid of CM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Robertson Posted July 23, 2001 Share Posted July 23, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Commissar: Another thing about the East Front's Unit Handbook, it states that the IS-2's cannon could hit with such force that it would shear the turret off enemy tanks. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Not really feasible for the impact to knock the turret out as such, remeber that the gun must be fired from a turret on the original tank. A turret will only become detacted if the round enters the turret ring area and forces the hull and turret appart. But no AT round has enough velocity to actually throw the turret of a resonably large tank very far at all. That is done by internal explosions of rounds in the tank cooking off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJungnitsch Posted July 24, 2001 Share Posted July 24, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Commissar: Another thing about the East Front's Unit Handbook, it states that the IS-2's cannon could hit with such force that it would shear the turret off enemy tanks. I've heard of the ISU-152 doing this to Panther turrets but I've never read an account of IS-2s doing this. the 122mm was a very powerful gun so it wouldn't surprise me but I've never read an account stating so. Anyone know of any sources?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Before the battle that nearly took my life, we were informed of a new Russian tank, the Josef Stalin III, that weighed forty-six tons and fired 122 mm projectiles. Because of its thick (120 mm), sloping armor, our 75 mm rounds would simply bounce off its skin unless we hit it from the side at a very close range. When I fired at the T-34 in the valley, I wasn't aware that there were a number of those monsters waiting two kilometers away at the edge of the forest. No sooner had I pulled the trigger than the Russian behemoth began firing. For once, the Russians struck our tank with their first round. The projectile hit our vehicle between the barrel and the barrel sleeve of our cannon. It tore our cannon off where it struck and, incredibly, entered the exposed chamber where it detonated, causing our loaded round to detonate as well. This tremendous explosion caused our waiting rounds, though not the magazine, to instantly explode as well. Eyewitnesses stated that our welded assault gun's armored roof was propelled from its position by a sheet of flame that rose about 100 meters into the air. I am sure this must have been an exaggeration, the force necessary to wrench that massive steel roof away from our tank and fling it through the air had to be considerable. Apparently, my training in mounting and dismounting in Bamberg as well as in Rastenburg paid off for I must have subconsciously crawled off the tank and sought cover behind it. Since our assault gun was totally destroyed and our crew miraculously lived through the ordeal, it became known as the "Miracle Tank of the Eastern Front." The whole story is here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rexford Posted July 24, 2001 Share Posted July 24, 2001 3 rounds a minute sounds high for IS-2 with improved breech. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snake Eyes Posted July 24, 2001 Share Posted July 24, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by rexford: 3 rounds a minute sounds high for IS-2 with improved breech.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I think 2-3 rounds a minute would be under ideal conditions. Battle conditions should reduce that to 1-2 rounds of accurate fire. BTW, rexford, the question was raised about the possibility of a 122mm round knocking the turret off a tank. I doubt that an AP round could, but what about an HE round? As our resident ballistics expert, what do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar Posted July 24, 2001 Share Posted July 24, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Adam Lloyd: The IS-2 was not a great tank, and Tigers killed them off just as well. Me, I'll take my trusty T-34/85 [ 07-23-2001: Message edited by: Adam Lloyd ]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Well for a "sucky" tank, they didn't seem to have too much trouble taking out Tigers despite the fact Tigers were a lot heavier than the IS-2. Not bad for a tank the Germans would only consider a medium tank. However, I do like those T-34/85s. Not up to par with a Panther, but still nice tanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rexford Posted July 24, 2001 Share Posted July 24, 2001 Russian Battlefield and some old articles by Valera Potapov put IS-2 rate of fire well below 3 with improved breech block under ideal conditions. Will look into turret removal process. Good question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PzKpfw 1 Posted July 24, 2001 Share Posted July 24, 2001 The IS-2 carried 28 rounds of main gun ammo usaly 7 - 8 BR-471B(AP-T) rounds, or BR-460A(SC)rounds & the rest was OF-462, OF-471(HE/frag) rounds. Regards, John Waters [ 07-24-2001: Message edited by: PzKpfw 1 ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amedeo Posted July 24, 2001 Share Posted July 24, 2001 John, were did you find reference to the use of 122mm HEAT rounds in AFVs other than the SU-122? IIRC the RB site stated that the first HEAT rounds for 122mm armed heavy tanks were issued in 1967 (along with APDS rounds). Regards, Amedeo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PzKpfw 1 Posted July 25, 2001 Share Posted July 25, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Amedeo: John, were did you find reference to the use of 122mm HEAT rounds in AFVs other than the SU-122? IIRC the RB site stated that the first HEAT rounds for 122mm armed heavy tanks were issued in 1967 (along with APDS rounds). Regards, Amedeo<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Zaloga, & Sarsons IS-2 Heavy Tank 1944 - 1973 Regards, John Waters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rexford Posted July 25, 2001 Share Posted July 25, 2001 First IS-II tanks carried BR-471 AP rounds as only armor piercing type, and this continued for awhile. Many IS-II tanks carried mostly BR 471 for quite awhile, others had BR 471B APBC. Big difference in effectiveness against sloped armor between 122mm AP and APBC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts