Almost cancelled order? Yeah, right : )

[Lobo]

I was reading the thread on the dead body being put in.

First; I think it's a great idea. Seeing the general advances or positions of men is great to figure out what went right/wrong.

Second; I would assume a lot of the comments made are just to stir up conversation. Some say they were close to canceling their orders because of the bodies. Give me a break!! No one, I mean no one, that reads this board regularly and has already pre-ordered the game would cancel their orders for ANY REASON. Lol, I would purchase this game for the same price based strictly on the demo version, in it's state of development, with just more scenarios and a randomizer. The rest is just bonus stuff!!

And last; I've already thanked the developer, on line, for making what is going to be the best Wargame ever. I would further like to thank Big Time for doing such a good job of looking at this board and supporting their fans (along with Battlefront).

PS; Big Time, if you'd like to send me out the game now, unfinished, you can have my money : )

[This message has been edited by Lobo (edited 05-02-2000).]

[Username]

The 'Bodies' are a great addition to a game like this.

I used to play ASL with homemade 'Corpse chits' (green ones and grey ones!). Anytime a KIA type result occured, we would put one down. It was a nice addition to small infantry games like the paratrooper module had. Names like "deadmans corner" and "the slaughterhaus" sprung up for certain areas of the board.

I think the bodies will have a definite psych effect on the human player. It can work both ways. Maybe holding onto a position obstinately after paying a high price to get it. Perhaps making a player realize discretion is the better part of valour and not trying for that last flag because his otherwise 'invisable' losses are staring up at the clouds.

Definite plus to the game. If they are so loathsome to others, then just say to yourself that this is not a sim of a battle but a sim of a training camp. The guys are just playing dead. There that wasnt so hard.

{snicker}

Lewis

[Guest Big Time Software]

Well, I would agree. I no more understand why someone would NOT order CM because of bodies, just as I wouldn't understand someone who would not order because it didn't have them. Yet I have seen both statements. Just goes go show that it is hard to win as a developer

I *can* understand someone having a big problem with CM if it went the route of Quake, complete with blood clouds and flying chunks of flesh. But as I have said, *WE* would have a problem with that too. And since we call the shots, it isn't ever going to happen.

And Lewis is correct. There is something extra added to the game that wasn't there before. Something good and positive to the simulation as a whole. Example...

I have played a game or two where I got my guys caught in a bad, bad situation. Craters and a few bodies marked the spot, and the survivors withdrew in a combo of panic and my orders. For the rest of the game I looked at that spot and said to myself, "I screwed up there". When I looked at the shattered remains of my little force I instantly thought of the spot, cratered and with a few bodies, and thought, "I have got to be more careful. I get sloppy, my guys get blasted". It makes me a better commander, on top of the direct game related info.

I am not saying that this decision reflection stuff wasn't a part of CM before, but it is made easier to see and has a nagging way of reminding you that you screwed up.

And on the other side of the coin, it is a good reminder of when you have done the right thing. Game I was playing yesterday was a great example. I didn't really know what was going on in there except that it was a good sized push towards my lines through some Scattered Trees. I pounded the Hell out of them with IG, mortar, DF HE, and HMG42 fire. Later in the game, when I counter attacked, I found out that I had probably decided the game right there in that patch. Nearly two full platoons and attached units were wiped out or shattered before my infantry (some of them pretty beat up!) went in and finished what had been started. No body markers, no knowledge of the casualties I caused and the wisdom of using my limited ammo to saturate the area.

Steve

[Username]

(the green chits were US units and the grey ones were german.. not fresh dead and old dead. I had these skulls that were transfers that I rubbed onto them.)

Lewis

[Lee]

Felt the need to clear that up, eh, Lewis? Lol.

Of course, I had assumed you had made custom markers to indicate

at least 4 levels of decomposition before reaching the gray

bones-like marker for the remains of the fallen. Glad you

explained it better.

[Compassion]

My first real exposure to a wargame was watching a game of Sniper being played. I always liked the seperate markers for wounded, Incapacitated, and KIA. it gave a good indicator of where the hot spots were... and where troops that could be rescued were as opposed to those for whom it was too late. In that game, though, incapacitated soldiers served a purpose in the game.

[Lorak]

sniper.... I loved that game. I wish someone would do a modern computer game of that one. Maybe avalon hill's squad leader will be close!!! lol, who am I kidding?

Lorak

------------------

http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/combatmissionclub

[Harold Jones]

Actually I was the only person who posted that I had considered cancelling my order over the body thing. See the Them's bodies thread for an explanation.

[Fionn]

Major Tom posted a similar sentiment also actually IIRC. It's no big deal though since I think people's gore fears have been allayed by a little extra explanation.

[Guest Captain Foobar]

(Fionn, don't respond to this here.....over at the listbot)

"Dead" Bodies might actually be tactically important, when playing operations, OR Combat Mission Meta Campaign. If you have a hill that is covered with your own casualties, wouldn't it make a lot of sense to try very hard to hold that position? After the 30 turns are over, life goes on, and it will be of the utmost importance to retrieve the wounded from where they fell.

Now there is nothing leading me to believe that retrieving your wounded is simulated, or that defending their positions is rewarded in operations.

But! I think it would be great if CMMC operations rewarded this behavior, with possible increased replacements, and I think I might try to behave that way when playing, because it is somewhat realistic.

[Major Tom]

It's funny cause it's not me... wait a minute... IT IS ME!

Nobody actually caught the reference to Star Trek VIII, or was it IX? You know, when that robot guy contemplated doing something really notty for a microsecond, it was like an eternity for me also.

So, lets get off our high horses and quit talking of such nonsense. The body 'issue' is done baby, lets get on with our lives. As Fionn said, we can be assured that there will be no excessive gore, which is all I was afriad of.