Col Deadmarsh Posted October 4, 2000 Share Posted October 4, 2000 I noticed that while playing, if I gave one of my teams orders in the previous turn to say, crawl to a certain spot, if I change those orders to a move instead or whatever, that team must wait 15 seconds or so for new orders. Ok, make sense. But...if I give these orders and then realize that I don't wanna wait 15 seconds for the new orders to come in, I can't reset the original orders and have to issue a new crawl order which also makes them wait for the new orders to come in. I'd like to see a "reset" button so if you give new orders to units during your turn and change your mind, you can reset those orders to the previous ones. That way, your team which is in the middle of carrying out these orders from the last turn won't be penalized because you changed your mind. ------------------ No, it can't wait till CM2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L.Tankersley Posted October 4, 2000 Share Posted October 4, 2000 Yep, I suggested something like this as well a while back. It's related to the penalty for retargetting artillery more than once in an orders phase. Hopefully it's on The List. ------------------ Leland J. Tankersley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark IV Posted October 4, 2000 Share Posted October 4, 2000 It can wait until CM2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Hofbauer Posted October 4, 2000 Share Posted October 4, 2000 I guess if you cancel the red (previously given and computed) order dot and instead entered a new one, then reverse your thinking and would rather have the old order back, then you'll simply have to label this one "tough luck and next time make up your mind beforehand" the game punishes you for being indecisive, mind you it's not a good trait for a commander ------------------ "Say i think u all need to chill out." (GAZ_NZ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slapdragon Posted October 5, 2000 Share Posted October 5, 2000 I think indecisiveness is a bad trait for a commander, but I cannot make up my mind on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bamse Posted October 5, 2000 Share Posted October 5, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Slapdragon: I think indecisiveness is a bad trait for a commander, but I cannot make up my mind on it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Slapdragon are you really certain about that Good one ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L.Tankersley Posted October 5, 2000 Share Posted October 5, 2000 Maybe yes, maybe no ... [re: indecisiveness... I don't really buy this argument. Most of the time when I want to "undo" an order it's because I had the wrong unit selected, or misclicked, or let go of the mouse button too soon, or didn't quite get the point where I wanted it. I don't think that troop performance should be penalized for this kind of user-input error in a game of CM's type. I want to concentrate my meagre mental powers on making the right tactical decisions, not on being absolutely sure everything is just so before I release the mouse button.] ------------------ Leland J. Tankersley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest *Captain Foobar* Posted October 5, 2000 Share Posted October 5, 2000 There is an easy option in the interim. Abort mission. Reload the email, start over. Which sucks hard if you are commanding a battallion or so and have to reissue all their orders too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col Deadmarsh Posted October 5, 2000 Author Share Posted October 5, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>[re: indecisiveness... I don't really buy this argument. Most of the time when I want to "undo" an order it's because I had the wrong unit selected, or misclicked, or let go of the mouse button too soon, or didn't quite get the point where I wanted it. I don't think that troop performance should be penalized for this kind of user-input error in a game of CM's type. I want to concentrate my meagre mental powers on making the right tactical decisions, not on being absolutely sure everything is just so before I release the mouse button.] ------------------ Leland J. Tankersley<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Good reasoning Tankersley. Some of these grognards will take any glitch that comes up and give it a "real world" excuse for being part of the game. Some of these excuses are reasonable. This one however is ridiculous. The player should have the right to change his mind or re-cover from whatever didn't transfer correctly from the human brain, through the mouse, and into the computer. ------------------ No, it can't wait till CM2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger Posted October 5, 2000 Share Posted October 5, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I'd like to see a "reset" button so if you give new orders to units during your turn and change your mind, you can reset those orders to the previous ones<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I disagree on this. If you've made a mistake or you're waffling on what you want to do, you should suffer a time penalty as the unit(s) in question will have to cope with your confusing orders and the "commander" changing his mind during battle. What you essentially want is there to be no way to make movement/order mistakes. When you make your moves, live with them or die by them. It will make you a much better tactician than one who has to use a "safety net". There's also nothing to stop you from saving and redoing your moves or reloading the e-mail, which makes this add-on "feature" somewhat redundant. -john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col Deadmarsh Posted October 5, 2000 Author Share Posted October 5, 2000 Redundant? Let's say I spend 20 minutes to set up my men and then make a slight mistake that I want to change. Now I have to exit the game, reload it, and then re-issue orders to my men. Having a button that would do all that in 1 second would hardly be redundant. Believe it or not, there are some of us out there who aren't into the 100% realism/real life BS. Some of us just want to play a fun game with features that make it easy to play. Why stop here? I say that for every man in a squad that gets killed, that player should have to suffer the same pain they do. Maybe that player could have his buddy pump a few rounds into him so he can bleed along with his soldiers. Alright, who's with me? ------------------ No, it can't wait till CM2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger Posted October 5, 2000 Share Posted October 5, 2000 Well first off you weren't talking about fixing mistakes. You only started hinging on this when someone else brought it up. You're original message said <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I give these orders and then realize that I don't wanna wait 15 seconds for the new orders to come in<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>. Sounds to me you didn't like that people started bringing up a valid counter of "commander-indecisiveness", then decided to change the basis for wanting a "redo" button to "fixing mouse-click mistakes". Secondly, there's no need to be an ass when someone offers differing opinions. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I spend 20 minutes to set up my men and then make a slight mistake that I want to change<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> And you're saying you're just playing to have fun and not be so RL/bs serious? Sounds like one slight mistake that would take 20 minutes to redo everything is getting fairly serious. jmho, -john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Fox Posted October 5, 2000 Share Posted October 5, 2000 I'm against a reset button.I'm not fanatical on realism but commanders make mistakes-so be it - I'll bet Napoleon would like to have changed a few at waterloo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiwiJoe Posted October 5, 2000 Share Posted October 5, 2000 But the thing is if you make a mistake you reload the email anyways. So why not just make it quicker by adding a reset button? I very much doubt people make a mistake with artilley and then go "oh well guess I'll have to live with it" hell no, they reload the email and do it properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slapdragon Posted October 5, 2000 Share Posted October 5, 2000 I am probably more neutral on this issue than anything else, except maybe I think Tiger brought up some good points. I do have to say I have never made a mistake that effected anything all that much -- maybe thinking a unit was running into the middle of the woods when the enemy could still get LOS on it and such. I would say that the current space bar "dumb move" safety has been all I needed in the game, so for me it would be a case of only the worst cases reloading the PBEM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mother Theresa Posted October 5, 2000 Share Posted October 5, 2000 If we are going to talk any realism on the 'Indecisive' thing, then we have to mention the fact that we can see the time pause on units orders at all. "Hmmm...WEll, that inf. is going to pause for 23 seconds before it moves out, and that tank for 36. So I better wait another 15 seconds before i run into these woods." Would be interesting if we could not see the pause times at all. -MT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col Deadmarsh Posted October 5, 2000 Author Share Posted October 5, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Well first off you weren't talking about fixing mistakes. You only started hinging on this when someone else brought it up. You're original message said quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I give these orders and then realize that I don't wanna wait 15 seconds for the new orders to come in -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- . Sounds to me you didn't like that people started bringing up a valid counter of "commander-indecisiveness", then decided to change the basis for wanting a "redo" button to "fixing mouse-click mistakes".<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I'm not changing my basis. I'm just defending the other person's reasoning in addition to my own. I still believe I should be able to make a mistake and be able to fix it without re-loading everything. I also agree with KiwiJoe in that since you have the option to do it anyway, why not make it easy to do? <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Secondly, there's no need to be an ass when someone offers differing opinions.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Kick back Tiger. I was just being a little sarcastic. ------------------ No, it can't wait till CM2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger Posted October 5, 2000 Share Posted October 5, 2000 Just a difference of opinions that's all. Should you be able to redo all orders without penalty or just certain ones? If so which ones? -john ~ps intresting thought MT . [This message has been edited by Tiger (edited 10-04-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiwiJoe Posted October 5, 2000 Share Posted October 5, 2000 This is a GAME... and the goal of a game interface is to make it as simple as possable to play the GAME. You shouldnt have to reload files and such because you clicked the wrong part of the map during your planning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Hofbauer Posted October 5, 2000 Share Posted October 5, 2000 MT, It's not entirely unrealistic to have a commander calculate with the time it would take his orders to be executed, or even to tell his men when exactly he wants them to start to execute an order (that's what clock/watch checks are for). A bit maybe, but not entirely. besides, this time data isn't atomic time. It's an approximation. I've seen vehicles that are supposed to start in 43 seconds take off at 30seconds into the movie, or infantry that was advertised to me as starting in 13sec getting up no sooner than 19 or so seconds. Granted, usually they start around the time you are being told, but it's not an absolute, at least in my experience. Colonel Deadarsh, I am not totally against it. Actually, I don't really care whether the redo your going for is in or not. Personally, I don't recall bothering to upload an email again because I canceled an order, thought otherwise, issued it again and then had a time penalty. That is not to say I would do it if IMO it would be absolutely necessary to prevent a catastrophe. However, the situation that would have warranted to bother because of a few seconds delay has not occured yet. Mabye it's dependant on your style of play, my style is to contemplate giving an order before I hit the mouse button, and I usually find myself playing around a bit with that order-line around the map, then eventually hitting the Spacebar (and I'm not talking about astronauts going for a drink). So, I don't really care, but I was merely transferring the official opinion that BTS has on the unit roster onto your redo option. So, in the light of the official view on the unit roster (btw I would be in favor of a unit roster, so I am not too far away from your thinking), I simply want to prepare you for the fact that your idea is probably not heeded. ------------------ "Say i think u all need to chill out." (GAZ_NZ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Michael emrys Posted October 5, 2000 Share Posted October 5, 2000 I would like to see an "Undo" or "Restore" hot key command too. I probably wouldn't need it all that often as I usually think out my commands pretty carefully before I give them, but it would be really great to have for those "Omigod!" situations that come along from time to time where you've gotten confused and given a unit an order intended for a completely different unit. I expected to be penalized for using bad judgement, but the problem under present discussion just doesn't feel like the right way to go about it. It feels more like an interface glitch. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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