ntg84 Posted July 24, 2000 Share Posted July 24, 2000 Why do my German snipers carry only 10-15 rounds of ammo? I'm assuming they are using scoped K-98. So a normal ammo loadout for a soldier would normally be more than 60 rounds of ammo. Why does this sniper only carry 10? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IntelWeenie Posted July 24, 2000 Share Posted July 24, 2000 "Shots" are abstracted in CM and not meant to represent single rounds. For more, search on "shots" or look to some of the posts in this thread about snipers and shots in particular: http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/Forum7/HTML/000041.html ------------------ "Belly to belly and everything's better" - Russian proverb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianc Posted July 24, 2000 Share Posted July 24, 2000 Yeah, but BTS never commented on this thread as to why the ammo count was so low or if they were considering tweaking it... ianc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullethead Posted July 25, 2000 Share Posted July 25, 2000 Have you ever seen what a sniper can do with just 10 rounds? But if that's still not enough for you, you can always use the editor to give them more ammo. ------------------ -Bullethead It was a common custom at that time, in the more romantic females, to see their soldier husbands and sweethearts as Greek heroes, instead of the whoremongering, drunken clowns most of them were. However, the Greek heroes were probably no better, so it was not so far off the mark--Flashman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarmo Posted July 25, 2000 Share Posted July 25, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by IntelWeenie: "Shots" are abstracted in CM and not meant to represent single rounds.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Doesn't explain it. 1 ammo point represents 1 burst from weapon as far as I know. With a bolt lock weapon, this would IMHO be one shot. With this reasoning, a sharpshooter could easily have as much as 50 units of ammo. I also remember reading, that sharpshooters are not specialist snipers, but just good shots with a sniper rifle. This would suggest they wouldn't go out with "every shot kills, so I'll only need few" -mentality. And I don't feel adding ammo would make them "unbalancing". Sharpshooters WERE effective, you wouldn't drive around unbuttoned if one was around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest herbjorn Posted July 25, 2000 Share Posted July 25, 2000 Just had two veteran snipers take out 2 MGs and 1 anti-tank team. They also sent some infantry squads running. But by turn 14 they were both out of ammo. Used them as spotters for the remaining 16 turns I have newfound respect for the MG42 heavy machinegun. With 95 ammo, it lasted through the whole engagement. Also the püpchen granatwerfer was great for only 18 points each . Had four of them distracting the enemy and made the job easier for my GebirgsJägers. My IVJ was able to drive down a valley and come up behind his armour, 2xSherman with 76mm guns. He knocked them out from behind while they were busy destroying the püpchens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milt Smegma Posted July 25, 2000 Share Posted July 25, 2000 I have a similiar prob with flame guys: if you get them to target say... a building they will keep flaming until ALL 6 of their "shots" are gone,which takes exactly one minute(turn) is there a way(if not then there needs to be one programmed)to tell units to "fire once then hold"? Very frustrating to watch my flame unit keep pouring flame onto an already burning building....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IntelWeenie Posted July 25, 2000 Share Posted July 25, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Milt Smegma: I have a similiar prob with flame guys: if you get them to target say... a building they will keep flaming until ALL 6 of their "shots" are gone,which takes exactly one minute(turn) is there a way(if not then there needs to be one programmed)to tell units to "fire once then hold"? Very frustrating to watch my flame unit keep pouring flame onto an already burning building.......<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I think they keep firing until they hit their "point of aim" (same for smoke). Even if flamers miss, they often can still start fires. ------------------ "Belly to belly and everything's better" - Russian proverb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SK Fish Posted July 25, 2000 Share Posted July 25, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Milt Smegma: is there a way(if not then there needs to be one programmed)to tell units to "fire once then hold"?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Are you using 1.01 patch? I thought that this was fixed with this patch. Perhaps that was going to be fixed with the 1.03 patch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mannheim Tanker Posted July 25, 2000 Share Posted July 25, 2000 Keep in mind that real-world snipers don't simply gun down everything in view. Ideally, they will wait for a high priority target (MG crew, officer, spotter, etc) and take a shot or two - and then move. Staying put significantly reduces their effectiveness and survivability! Moving between firing positions requires stealth, and is therefore quite time consuming. Since most CM battles last only about a half an hour (an hour max), it is highly unlikely to expect a sniper to take more than 10 shots during the coarse of the entire battle. However, those 10 shots can be incredibly effective if it equates to 10 officers, spotters, or machine gunners! Just my $.02... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Los Posted July 25, 2000 Share Posted July 25, 2000 You are making a few erroneous assumptions. First off, if a sharpshooter in CM is carrying only 10-15 rounds then that is because it was set as so in the scenario editor. The game itself does not limt the load out that low. You can adjust ammo load out. Secondly an attack from a marksman can include multiple rounds. It is an erroneous assumption that snipers fire one shot one kill. Often attacks require a number of shots to get the target. And anyway, the guys represented in CM are not snipers but sharpshooters, regular joes (albeit of theoretcially higher than normal marksmanship) operating by themselves (while most snipers operate in pairs.) Los Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IntelWeenie Posted July 25, 2000 Share Posted July 25, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mannheim Tanker: Keep in mind that real-world snipers don't simply gun down everything in view. Ideally, they will wait for a high priority target (MG crew, officer, spotter, etc) and take a shot or two - and then move *snip* However, those 10 shots can be incredibly effective if it equates to 10 officers, spotters, or machine gunners! Just my $.02...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> You forgot to mention tank commanders... , or (depending on the situation) ------------------ "Belly to belly and everything's better" - Russian proverb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest herbjorn Posted July 26, 2000 Share Posted July 26, 2000 Any chance then that BTS would add "sniper teams"? a 2-man team which could also be split and recombined at will. 10 shots is too little, but if they were given an ammo of 20 (thats 20 each) they would stand a greater chance of being usefull throughout the battle. Their cost should be quite high, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
von Lucke Posted July 26, 2000 Share Posted July 26, 2000 I think it's more of a playability issue, than anything else (hey, this is a game, after all). If you had an Elite Sharpshooter with 50 rounds of ammo, then your opponent would spend most of the battle cowering --- hard to get an offensive going when all your officers, TC's, and Arty spotters are dead... Not very fun (or realistic), IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Posted July 26, 2000 Share Posted July 26, 2000 Giving snipers more ammo would imbalance the game. These guys are highly effective when used right, even with their "10 shots only". I stopped whole vehicle columns by disabling the leading car with a sniper. IMO, they should stay exactly as implemented. Fred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Scott Clinton Posted July 26, 2000 Share Posted July 26, 2000 Balance arguements are irrelevant in my opinion. Just increase the points. Does the King Tiger throw the balance off? No, because it costs a lot more than a PzIV. ------------------ Please note: The above is solely the opinion of 'The Grumbling Grognard' and reflects no one else's views but his own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarmo Posted July 26, 2000 Share Posted July 26, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by von Lucke: If you had an Elite Sharpshooter with 50 rounds of ammo, then your opponent would spend most of the battle cowering --- hard to get an offensive going when all your officers, TC's, and Arty spotters are dead... Not very fun (or realistic)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> If an elite sharpshooter could wipe them out like that, the game would be IMHO faulty. I'm sure the biggest problem for real life snipers was not the lack of ammo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRourke Posted July 26, 2000 Share Posted July 26, 2000 I'm by no means a grog, but I can't claim I've ever read an account of a sniper team being involved in a pitched battle. My understanding is that they tend to do their work during lulls in the fighting, and tend to only get off 1-3 shots/30 mins or so, with caution and stealth having priority. And they certainly don't take orders from some Major way up the chain of command on where they should setup and who they should shoot at. As it is, I think sharpshooters (which as someone pointed out earlier are NOT snipers) should be weakened. They're far too useful as scouts, relaying back detailed spotting reports. The "leader sees what any units see" assumption that CM makes is alot more serviciable when those units are part of a regular chain of command. Its a bit harder to believe that some guy 150 meters fwd of your lines will warn you about the SS 44 Rifle Platoon (Veteran) moving up around his position. Of course, this stuff has been all hashed out before... as I remember, BTS only grudgingly included snipers because of these very problems. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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