von Lucke Posted May 23, 2000 Share Posted May 23, 2000 Just curious if anyone else noticed what's different about this group... (And I wanted to see if I could figure out how to post an image). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berlichtingen Posted May 23, 2000 Share Posted May 23, 2000 Other than being tank crewmen in the Luftwaffe, I don't see anything remarkable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tss Posted May 23, 2000 Share Posted May 23, 2000 Not certain, but the two guys on the sides certainly wear their EKs in a non-standard way. (Supposing that they are Iron Crosses and not some other similar decoration). - Tommi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest KwazyDog Posted May 23, 2000 Share Posted May 23, 2000 Well, the guy on the right does look like one of the guys from Happy Days..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gespenster Posted May 23, 2000 Share Posted May 23, 2000 The award in question is the Knights Cross of the Iron Cross. The Officer in the middle is wearing his in the correct manner ... the other two were probably just awarded the Medals shortly before the photo was taken. You were allowed to wear your awards in this manner for 24hrs after it was awarded. I'm sure the Officer in the middle is merely giving them a well deserved "Congrats" and/or "Welcome to the club" pat on the back, for winning one of the most highly coveted awards given in the German Army. Oh, and they are probably members of the infamous Herman Göring Division, the Luftwaffe's elite ground division. And the pic was most likely taken in Italy/Sicily. Although I noticed that all three men are wearing the early style Panzer Wrap, which could mean the photo was taken much earlier. Cool pic BTW. ~G ------------------ "It is well that War is so terrible, lest we grow to fond of it" Robert E. Lee [This message has been edited by Gespenster (edited 05-23-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted May 23, 2000 Share Posted May 23, 2000 Gespenster got everything I would have. The black panzer wraps were worn all the way through the war, but without the piping along the colars for later versions. So the fact that these guys have them and the fellows in the back have the older overseas caps, does indicate that this photo was likely taken between 1941 and 1942. But note the trees in the back. Not the sort of thing I would expect to see in Tunisia, Sicily, or southern Italy. So this makes me think that these guys served in either Regiment or Brigade Herman Göring in Russia (41-42). They would have been serving as Panzerjägers most likely. The fact that they are wearing the earlier black uniform adds to this guess, since the feldgrau uniform for non-tank AFV crews didn't happen until '43 IIRC. Steve [This message has been edited by Big Time Software (edited 05-23-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gespenster Posted May 23, 2000 Share Posted May 23, 2000 Steve, you saying that there are no trees in Italy? hehehehe ... (just kidding ) Now that I think about it, you are probably dead on with your guess of Southern Russia in 41-42. Good call ... ------------------ "It is well that War is so terrible, lest we grow to fond of it" Robert E. Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juju Posted May 23, 2000 Share Posted May 23, 2000 On the Hermann Goering Division thing: I have a couple of pictures in front of me that show white shoulder patches instead of black ones for the H.G. division. There's also a picture of an infantry uniform from the same division, also white. Maybe these patches are from a later or earlier date. Any insights on this anyone? Er, I meant the skull insignia thingies, of course, not the actual shoulder patches... ------------------ Combat Axiom #49. It could be worse. It could be me. [This message has been edited by Juju (edited 05-23-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Michael emrys Posted May 23, 2000 Share Posted May 23, 2000 The trees thing is probably meaningless (good try though, Steve). The medals were probably awarded at Hitler's command post in East Prussia. Since the trees look like birches to me, that would fit (although I concede the argument can be made that birches are common in many parts of Russia, especially the north, too). Neverthelss, I believe the Knights Cross and higher decorations were usually awarded personally by Hitler, and East Prussia is where he spent most of his time from early 1942 until early 1945. Michael P.S. I won't recapitulate my question about what was special about Adolf Galland's Knight's Cross with Oak Leaves, Swords and Diamonds. That one is probably still rotting somewhere in the archives (the question, not the decoration). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gespenster Posted May 23, 2000 Share Posted May 23, 2000 Michael, I have never heard that the Knight's cross was awarded only by Hitler, there were many occasions of it being awarded on all fronts, I doubt Hitler could have made it to all those places ... where did you hear that? ... as for the award itself, it had 3 different classes, Knights Cross, Cross w/ Oak leaves, Cross w/ Oak Leaves and Clusters, and the Cross with Oak Leaves clusters and Diamonds being the highest level (comparable to the Medal of Honor for the US). That is what I believe Galland was awarded. ~G ------------------ "It is well that War is so terrible, lest we grow to fond of it" Robert E. Lee [This message has been edited by Gespenster (edited 05-23-2000).] [This message has been edited by Gespenster (edited 05-23-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juju Posted May 23, 2000 Share Posted May 23, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Michael emrys: P.S. I won't recapitulate my question about what was special about Adolf Galland's Knight's Cross with Oak Leaves, Swords and Diamonds. That one is probably still rotting somewhere in the archives (the question, not the decoration). <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Ah, I don't really know what the question was, but I did some checking and I think the answer is: It was special because HE didn't get it!!! There was only one awarded and that went to Hans Ulrich Rudel (Bf-109 and Stuka pilot, knew how to kick Soviet tank-ass very well). Adolf Galland was awarded the Knight's Cross with Oak Leaves and Swords. HOWEVER, I have been known to get things wrong..., from time to time... Oh dear... ------------------ Combat Axiom #49. It could be worse. It could be me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike D Posted May 23, 2000 Share Posted May 23, 2000 All versions of Knight's Cross were to be awarded by Hitler. And you went to him typically in Berlin (got a nice little leave to go along with it), he didn't normally come to you. There were exceptions of course. For example, one of the Knight's Cross awards to Jochen Peiper (if I'm remembering the right officer) was actually awarded by ReichsFuhrer Himler, not Hitler. Mikester out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gespenster Posted May 23, 2000 Share Posted May 23, 2000 Good call juju ... I forgot about the Swords, so I guyess there were actually 4 different classes ... jeez! The only reason I questioned the fact that Hitler awarded all Knight's Crosses is because I am friends with a Knight's cross holder (Hpt. Eberhardt Schmalz, awarded the Knight's Cross in Apr. 1945) in Prague (hospital) and it was not awarded by Hitler or Himmler, but considering those were the last days of the War, I can imagine that they had other things going on. Thanks for the info, I guess you learn something new every day. ~G ------------------ "It is well that War is so terrible, lest we grow to fond of it" Robert E. Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Posted May 23, 2000 Share Posted May 23, 2000 What was special about that award, and I think there only was one ever given, was that the diamonds used were real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted May 23, 2000 Share Posted May 23, 2000 Michael has a good point. This picture could have been taken in East Prussia. Although certainly not all 1000+ KC were handed out by Hitler himself (I've seen pics of others doing it at the front), a good number were especially after some big military action. I'm still guessing these guys got their awards for service on the Eastern Front. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted May 23, 2000 Share Posted May 23, 2000 There was only one because there was only one guy that needed it Seriously, they litterally ran out of things to award Rudel so they made up the award just for him. As it turned out nobody else got one. Another note for the Hitler thing... IIRC all KC were awarded by hitler ON PAPER. In other words, instead of a divisional commander awarding the thing I am pretty sure only Hitler had the authority to do so. But again, it is not true that he physically handed out all of them (though probably a good portion for sure). Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berlichtingen Posted May 23, 2000 Share Posted May 23, 2000 Definitely not all awarded in person. Ramcke's arrived by parachute Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juju Posted May 23, 2000 Share Posted May 23, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Big Time Software: There was only one because there was only one guy that needed it Seriously, they litterally ran out of things to award Rudel so they made up the award just for him. As it turned out nobody else got one. Steve<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Not only that: Rudel also had a special version of the 'Frontspange fuer Kampfflieger' with a specially made (and unique) pendant with the number 2000 in diamonds (Rudel managed to survive the war with 2000 sorties on his name)! As Steve said: He seriously earned/needed it! Anyway, Herr von Lucke, I like a good riddle, but I like answers better. So, What exactly IS odd about this picture, Hmmm?? ------------------ Combat Axiom #49. It could be worse. It could be me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Babra Posted May 23, 2000 Share Posted May 23, 2000 What is the badge below the Luftwaffe Eagle on the centre character? I can't make it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Germanboy Posted May 23, 2000 Share Posted May 23, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Babra: What is the badge below the Luftwaffe Eagle on the centre character? I can't make it out.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> German Cross? I could be completely off here. ------------------ Andreas It is amazing what you can learn from a good book... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffRaider Posted May 23, 2000 Share Posted May 23, 2000 /me sits in stunned awe. . . You guys are hardcore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindan Posted May 23, 2000 Share Posted May 23, 2000 It's a bit like old Sherlock Holmes stories were the master detective deducts from a footprint that the boots owner was a middle-aged fisher from Scotland who likes to smoke a specific type of cigar and has an exotic illness. *lol* plain amazing! <hr> http://members.tripod.de/lindan http://lindan.panzershark.com a member of the CM webring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juju Posted May 24, 2000 Share Posted May 24, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Babra: What is the badge below the Luftwaffe Eagle on the centre character? I can't make it out.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> That, oh Babra, is 'Das Deutsche Kreuz.' Silver or gold, I can't make that out. Silver is for honorable military services to the war effort. The gold version was awarded for 'combat related efforts.' Hope this helps! ------------------ Combat Axiom #6. Incoming fire has the right of way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juju Posted May 24, 2000 Share Posted May 24, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by von Lucke: Just curious if anyone else noticed what's different about this group... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> God, I need to get a life! Okay, the medals ain't odd, we've been over them. Apart from Richie Cunningham there, the guys look pretty normal to me. As for the trees: They could be back in the Fatherland for some R&R and a couple of medals (richie and the guys, not the trees). So, I for one give up! So pleeeaase Von Lucke. It's pretty late over here and I'll never be able to sleep without an answer! Got any more riddle pics? ------------------ Combat Axiom #6. Incoming fire has the right of way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest smbutler Posted May 24, 2000 Share Posted May 24, 2000 What's strange about the picture? Jeeze, I I dunno... maybe it's the fact that they don't have bullseyes painted across their murderous Wermacht foreheads.I don't give a ##@# about their medals or uniforms --except for the fact that they make good targets. I'm not trying to start anything.. and I understand that not all Germans were evil.I'm just giving you my honest gut reaction to the picture. Sean M. Butler Grandson of 2nd Lt John Henry Frick 8th United States AirForce KIA [This message has been edited by smbutler (edited 05-23-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts