Fionn Posted April 10, 2000 Share Posted April 10, 2000 Well, I may be taking a plunge soon and getting myself a Ge card as a "pick me up". I'm gonna upgrade the motherboard and CPU too and am looking at upgrading to an Athlon 600. I'll keep 128 MB Ram and a PCI 128 Soundcard. I'm selling off my old components so the cost of the upgrade will be minimal. My question is this... Will a GeForce with 32mb DDRAM be wasted on an Athlon 600 ? Getting a CPU faster than a 600 is out of the question for cost reasons but I don't want to spend a wad on the GeForce if my CPU is going to hold it back. i might be better saving the money and getting a cheaper TNT2 or something. Any of you tech-guys out there know? P.s. TV OUT etc.. IF I get a GeForce I think it comes with TV OUT/IN capability. Does this mean I'd be able to then output to a TV screen, record it on tape and then "record" the tape onto my HD and make movies for uploading? I think that's how the original movies you've all seen have been made. I've got some movies which you'd all kill to see from the beta demo and will be upgrading within a couple of days if all goes well so let me know ASAP k? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rune Posted April 10, 2000 Share Posted April 10, 2000 Fionn, There is a link on Voodoo Extreme that shows the problems on the GeForce with your setup and the fixes invloved. before deciding, take the link and see if the upgrades, like BIOS are worth your time. Here is the link if I do this correctly: http://members.prestige.net/geforce/home.htm On the other hand, the next generation NVidia Chip is supposed to be out in April. The voodoo 5 is also looking quite nice. I AM running a GeForce card. Rune PS, Did you get the article from Jon and I about VT fuzes? Do I need to resend? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Madmatt Posted April 10, 2000 Share Posted April 10, 2000 Fionn, For what you are planning to do and knowing the games you play then I think (humbly) that a GerForce is a bit overkill for you. You would be better off going with a nice and stable TNT 2 Ultra card which have proven and stable drivers (the new 5.0x build Detonators are FAST!!!) and are MUCH cheaper than the two hundred plus you will drop on a GeForce. A GeForce is a great card no doubt, BUT like any new technology it has its share of growing pains and since you arent the most (hmmm how to sound nice here??? Oh hell with it, I CAN'T!!!) gifted computer geek around you would be better off with something that will be able to run pretty much outa the box. Besides some of the best features of a GeForce are going to be wasted since I don't think you play FPS much. T&L is nice but its not going into CM and unless you have a sweet monitor that can push the resolutions (above 1024x768) and refresh rates then you wont come close to pushing the card to its limits. That Athlon 600 is awfull slow for the price when you compare it to the current family of 600+ processors available now. My recommendation would be to look at the speed to price ratio for all the 600's and above for a processor and go with a good old TNT 2 Ultra. Its been my card of choice for some time and I have been nothing but happy with it! Oh, don't expect too much outa a video cards TV In/Out, that is usually (in a 3D game card anyway) usually just something they through in to entice people and is NEVER as full featured as a dedicated TV card. I am not saying it sucks but they are notorious for having problems or not working all the time...Ok so I guess I am saying that they DO suck then! Madmatt ------------------ If it's in Combat Mission, it's on Combat Mission HQ! combathq.thegamers.net [This message has been edited by Madmatt (edited 04-10-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ol' Blood & Guts Posted April 10, 2000 Share Posted April 10, 2000 Matt, I'm running a D-Viper V770 TNT2 Ultra. Running the latest Diamond drivers. However, I changed my jumpers to 4X AGP when I don't have it and have never gotten around to opening up the damn machine to change them back to 2X AGP yet. Should I get those new Detonator drivers and where do I get them? P.S. I wouldn't buy anything that says Voodoo on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Posted April 10, 2000 Share Posted April 10, 2000 If I were you, Fionn, I would get a TNT2 Ultra card (the Hercules Dynamite TNT2 Ultra's are great cards if you can find one) and use the money you save to get maybe an Athlon 650. This way you can push the TNT2 to it's limits plus have more power for AI, interface, positional sound, etc. If you find a good deal on a voodoo 3, those are good too. The Geforce in such a system can't be fully utilized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Madmatt Posted April 10, 2000 Share Posted April 10, 2000 You can get those drivers from either Voodooextreme.com or 3DColony. Madmatt ------------------ If it's in Combat Mission, it's on Combat Mission HQ! combathq.thegamers.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted April 10, 2000 Author Share Posted April 10, 2000 Ah TNT2 it is then. Unfortunately I'm stuck with "big stores" over here cause this is partially for my Dad ( VAT dodge ) and these places usually suck... I got quoted $400 for an AMD600 and roughly the same for a PIII 500 ;(. Prices in ireland are mad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fokker Posted April 10, 2000 Share Posted April 10, 2000 I would wait for the Voodoo 5500. It has 64 megs of ram and is the same price as a Geforce. Plus it hasn't got all of the compatibility proplems of a g card Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoolColJ Posted April 10, 2000 Share Posted April 10, 2000 Errrr I disagree with all of you - I've had a TNt2 and a Geforce SDR on the same machine - a P3 573mhtz machine , and believe me there is a huge difference in speed! Even with a SDR on just a P3 500 (o/c to 573 mhtz). CM was a lot smoother on the Geforce, and not necessarily due to the increase in frame rates. Pumping 4 texels per clock cycle, as opposed to 2 texels in the TNT2 does that Having said that - wait till the new Nv video card comes out - that means the current geforce will drop in price, you may even pick one up second hand, from people upgrading All the problems that others have described are pretty much gone now, with the new VIA chipsets and Kx133 Athlon motherboards, and stability with geforce cards are just as good as any if not better. Also my Geforce was pretty overclocked up too. I had a Leadtek Geforce using SGram - standard was running at 125mhtz/160mhtz memory - I clocked mine up to 150/190! Which ran for hours without crashing and got me an extra 15 fps! Yeah there is a difference in brands, also mine had a SV video out as well, so I can watch on TV and record on a video recorder. But unless you have a video capture card then there is no way you can capture it onto you HD. Fionn ever thought of getting a Matrox G400max TV video card? They look superb (better than a TNT2 in 2d and 3d quality), are just as quick as TNT2 Ultras and have superb TV outs, and can also capture (only the TV capture one). But they aren't cheap, and the your up to Geforce territory again http://www.sharkyextreme.com/hardware/reviews/video/matrox_g400marvel/ here is a detailed review of the G400 TV - I'm thinking of getting one myself Or maybe the next generation version ------------------ CCJ aka BLITZ_Force My Hompage ----> http://www.geocities.com/coolcolj Double your immersion with my Tweaked Textures and Saving Private Ryan sound set mods for CM!! Check out my new Textures V2.0 photo Gallery and my music while your there, or grab a CM Wallpaper! [This message has been edited by CoolColJ (edited 04-10-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Posted April 11, 2000 Share Posted April 11, 2000 I didn't say the GeForce wouldn't be faster. I said that the system Fionn is talking about getting will not push the card to it's limits. Big difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikeydz Posted April 11, 2000 Share Posted April 11, 2000 The latest PCGamer had a pretty good article of compatibitity issues with Athlon/GeForce combos. The general feelings I've heard are that the Athlon's are a bit finicky, but seems that combo seems to have more problems that most. As far as which card I would by... It would be the GeForce over the TNT2 cards, but then tend to be geared more toward bleeding edge than the average gamer. As CCJ mentioned, if your switching mainboards, go with the latest chipsets (Asus or A-Bit brand boards if you can do anything about it, but for sure avoid a "no-name" board) which is the way to go no matter what card you choose. Mikey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MantaRay Posted April 11, 2000 Share Posted April 11, 2000 Actually Fionn, get a Creative Labs DDR, as they are the best all around on the market now, but unless you are playing HALO or some really huge graphics hog, get a DV770U. It is cheaper and runs very well on an Athlon. Ray ------------------ MantaRays 5 Pages Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GriffinCheng Posted April 11, 2000 Share Posted April 11, 2000 CCJ, I would agree! I am using a CL GeForce DDR and CM is smooth, even on my good o' P2-450. Fionn, I would recommend Asus GeForce cards as they are the best out there. I think she has a TV-out but don't count on it for a TV-in. BTW, GeForce had problems with Athlon but I suppose it is the past tense now. In fact, even if you only play CM, I would also recommend GeForce! Oh, I love the way NFS:P2K looks on my GeForce honey! Griffin trying to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiwiJoe Posted April 11, 2000 Share Posted April 11, 2000 Fionn: Don't be a fool and break the "always buy Intel" rule! If your looking for a budget cpu, but an Intel celeron 566 or 600. DON'T buy AMD. When the new AMD spitfire range comes out I'll consider changing my mind, if the price/speed is better than a celeron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Compassion Posted April 11, 2000 Share Posted April 11, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by KiwiJoe: Fionn: Don't be a fool and break the "always buy Intel" rule! If your looking for a budget cpu, but an Intel celeron 566 or 600. DON'T buy AMD. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> That's the ticket! Intel = Good! Learn it, Live it. Though we don't know what things cost in Ireland, I tend to agree. I'd rather pay Celeron prices than Athlon. The only way I'd go top of the line is to wait for Willamet or the slightly slower Athlon 1.1 gigs; both will be shipping later this year. Otherwise, there is no real competition for Celeron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattias Posted April 11, 2000 Share Posted April 11, 2000 By the way Fionn, Are you sure the RAM you currently have is good enough for your new system? Bottle necks come in all shapes you know... Drop the PCI 128 soundcard. Why cripple yourself when the much much superior SB Live value is available at extremely favourable prices considering the performance. And if you go with Athlon and a GeForce on top of it, make sure the power supply in your box is sufficient, 250W at least, some say 300W. Oh, and welcome to hardware hell M. [This message has been edited by Mattias (edited 04-11-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Posted April 11, 2000 Share Posted April 11, 2000 High performance hardware for playing 3D games is one of my specialties and I would rather have an Athlon 600 over a Celeron or a PIII 600 any day. It's a great chip and very fast. The problems with the GeForce have long since been resolved, just make sure you have the latest drivers from Nvidia. But for this system the most efficient card would be the TNT2, no wasted performance. But if you're willing to spend the extra money and you don't mind not being able to use all of the card, you can go with the Geforce. You could always upgrade the CPU later and get the full effect of the card at that time. Just depends what you want to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
von Lucke Posted April 11, 2000 Share Posted April 11, 2000 Sure Athlons are nice --- if you have *exactly* the right combination of mobo, video card (with a little Registry tweaking), power supply, etc. Too much effort for a lazy bastid like me. The new PIII E's now (the 0.18 micron CPU's that have the 256 L2 cache running at core speed)--- that's the ticket! They're fast and Intel is selling 'em cheap because they're easier to make than the traditional Katmai PIII's. (Oh, and don't confuse these for those crap Coppermine jobbies --- I'm talking about the 100 mH FSB model E's). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stef Posted April 11, 2000 Share Posted April 11, 2000 Fionn, I agree with CoolcolJ and Mattias for the Geforce, Apollo motherboard and SB Live! (I've got the 3). But buying your new hardware depends also of when you expect to upgrade again (1-2-3 years ??) and what you expect from it... Here's what I've bought 2 months ago with advantages/drawbacks (IMO and according to site such as http://www.tomshardware.com/mainboard/98q4/981109/index.html )with the obligation for me to keep this hardware for a minimum of 3 years (perhaps a bit too powerful now but normaly should be still ok in 3 years for the usage I have from it despite the evolution of the softwares).I use these softs without any problem: Office 2000, Photoshop 5, Baldur's Gate and of course CM (very smooth) and never play "high end 3D Galactic Destroyer " games. - Motherboard ASUS P3V4X Apollo 133 PRO SLOT1 AGP 4X( multi processor Celeron (new/old), PIII (new/old)...SLOT 1 in order to use Piii or Celeron with adaptator (Intel gonna come back to the socket370 (Celeron) for a while in the future). Easy to overclock. 133 bus for Piii. fair price. (drawbacks ??) -Celeron 500: fast enough for the softwares I'm using although the 128 cache memory.fair price. -Creative Labs Annihilator PRO (DDR RAM !!) ( perfect card but no TV/video plug ... better take a other card with same features plus a TV plug for the same price) more expensive than TNT2 but probably still ok in 3 years for CM 3 and Baldur's Gate III as I can't change my hardware 'till then...just perhaps convert to Piii in 1 1/2 years for a low price) - SB Live! perfect. - 128 RAM - (DVD Pionneer 114T UDMA) good luck Stephan [This message has been edited by Stef (edited 04-11-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Posted April 11, 2000 Share Posted April 11, 2000 As long as you have a recently made PC and have the latest drivers from Nvidia you'll have no problem running a Geforce with an Athlon (the problem had nothing to do with the Athlon chip itself). And if you're getting the TNT2 then it isn't even an issue. An Athlon 600/650 with a TNT2 will make for a potent efficient combo. If you can add in a Sound Blaster Live Value that would be great because they produce nice sound, are very cheap and they use up the least CPU power of any positional sound card I have seen. Anyhow, let us know how the new system handles CM, Fionn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattias Posted April 11, 2000 Share Posted April 11, 2000 While on the subject. Does anybody know how good the software Anti-Aliasing on the GeForce is (or isn´t it implemented yet?)? Now looking at CM and considering all the jagged lines (same as in all games) then looking at and reading about what FSAA (Full Screen Anti-Aliasing ) does for 3dfx demo pictures and games, it seems to me that this could be a very nice feature for CM (again, along with all other games). Now, I know using FSAA results a significant performance hit but getting 32 bit colour 4x FSAA at about the same speed as a normal VooDoo 3 3000 still seems tempting. I don´t want to start the tiresome old fan war between graphics cards, I´m just interested in what Anti-Aliasing can do for CM. Any thoughts? M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Posted April 12, 2000 Share Posted April 12, 2000 Well, it'll make CM look fantastically clean, nice smooth edges on everything. 3DFX's goal is to have FSAA with 32 bit clor and 1024x768 res while still keeping the game running fast. Quake III is what they use for their test for this, IIRC. That's impressive performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dschugaschwili Posted April 12, 2000 Share Posted April 12, 2000 Fionn, your setup sounds quite reasonable. There are some things to take care of, though. 1. The Athlon CPU has a pretty high power consumption, so you should check your power supply. If it says anything less than 250W, get a new one, preferably with 300W to be on the safe side. 2. Get a good motherboard. Visit www.anandtech.com and/or www.tomshardware.com for reviews. The Athlon 600 is one of the best CPUs you can buy today, especially considering the price/performance ratio. Almost all Intel solutions have at least one drawback. The GeForce is a very fast card, but not really overkill. You can always use the extra power for higher resolutions or better image quality. Don't wait for 3dfx to release a new product, it will more than likely not beat the GeForce in real world situations. The SB128 is fine if you don't need 3d sound. 128 MB RAM is ok. Actually, I would probably select similar components if I would buy a new computer today. Dschugaschwili Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoolColJ Posted April 12, 2000 Share Posted April 12, 2000 Mathias Cm's problem is not AA- although that will help, playing at high res just about cures the jaggies WHat CM suffers from is the lack of Mipmapping, which causes that shimmering when you move around. I hope Charles has fixed this in the gold version, because the shimmering is really annoying ccj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocky Posted April 13, 2000 Share Posted April 13, 2000 Fionn you need a real system try this one, I should have it in time for the CM gold demo. PIII 733 Asus PC2000 Motherboard SB Live 256 meg 133Mhz Ram 22 Gig Deskstar H/D Voodoo 3 3000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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