Juju Posted May 5, 2000 Share Posted May 5, 2000 Recently I played LD vs the computer. I played the Allies, and managed to keep my men relatively quiet until my reinforcements showed up. The Germans sent one Stu left (off the road) and kept the other one close behind the Tiger on the road. As soon as my AFV's arrived, I started blasting away at the German tanks. The Stu on the road got Ko'd by the first hit. The shell intended for the Tiger breaks up. At that point (this is all going rather simultaneously) The Tiger seems to panic and reverses right into the Stu, pushing it several meters up the road. I know tanks are capable of doing this, but what I want to know is: is this feature indeed intentional? Come to think of it, can you push wrecks off the road?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tom w Posted May 5, 2000 Share Posted May 5, 2000 yes I think tanks can push tanks other players have indicated that when their tanks get bogged in the CE scenario they have attempted to use their other tanks to push them out... this seems to work I have used a Hellcat in LD to push a KO'd Hellcat off the road and out of my way... so I suspect it is intentional. any other observations... -tom w Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Peltz Posted May 5, 2000 Share Posted May 5, 2000 The feature is intentional, and you can push things to a limited extent. You won't push a Tiger with a Hanomag, but vice versa would be true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juju Posted May 5, 2000 Author Share Posted May 5, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kevin Peltz: You won't push a Tiger with a Hanomag, but vice versa would be true.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Obviously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaffertape Posted May 5, 2000 Share Posted May 5, 2000 Yet another cool CM implementation. And just think - that was in the Beta. GAFF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted May 5, 2000 Share Posted May 5, 2000 I think another tester once pushed a knocked out HT off a bridge and into the water below when he wanted to push some tanks across. I've never done it but I remember someone mentioning it a few months ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted May 5, 2000 Share Posted May 5, 2000 I hope I don't see a Stuart pushing a Tiger around Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Sabot Posted May 5, 2000 Share Posted May 5, 2000 I see no reason why a M22 Locust can't push a KO'd Maus off the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juju Posted May 5, 2000 Author Share Posted May 5, 2000 Do You know how large and heavy a Maus was? Besides, I'd be VERY surprised if one would turn up in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Sabot Posted May 6, 2000 Share Posted May 6, 2000 Juju, i was only joking . Have you seen the M22 locust? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trooper Posted May 6, 2000 Share Posted May 6, 2000 Weight is not an issue. What is an issue is initial friction and gearing ratios.. If I may take two examples from the railroading world... In the 1920s, I believe it was, a locomotive manufacturer came up with a new system of bearings to reduce the friction on the wheels (and thus wear and increase drawbar pull). To demonstrate how little friction there was, they parked a 250 ton locomotive on level track at a station (I believe it was Chicago), tied a rope to the front coupler, released the brakes and asked for three young women from the audience. These three lasses, aged about 20-25 hauled on the rope and actually pulled this locomotive forward. I can't remember offhand if I read this in Model Railroader or Trains though. As for respective size, one old engineer said how shocked he was when a new diesel switcher (about 900 hp) just walked off with a train that a double-headed road combination had just struggled to get into the yard. The difference was in gearing ratios. The little loco couldn't pull as much as fast, but it could pull more slower. So you never know.. a Locust might just be able to push a Maus off a flat road if the handbrake was left off! Manic Moran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juju Posted May 6, 2000 Author Share Posted May 6, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Black Sabot: Juju, i was only joking . Have you seen the M22 locust? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Yes. That's why I commented. Hehheh. After Trooper's comment it doesn't mean much anymore, eh, cos I'm inclined to believe him. [This message has been edited by Juju (edited 05-05-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Sabot Posted May 6, 2000 Share Posted May 6, 2000 Or....If that didn't work it could continuously blast away with its 37mm for 3 months straight until the Maus was reduced to scrap. Then it could just roll over it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moriarty Posted May 6, 2000 Share Posted May 6, 2000 In general, tanks will not get involved in pushing other vehicles around the map. The AI will, on occasion, have armor push an immobile or knocked-out vehicle off a road to so the armor can get through to an objective. But, if there is an easier path for the tank to take and still reach its objective, the AI will generally opt to take it. The AI does not agree—being smarter than me—with other ideas about moving vehicles around. Example: I had an immobile M-4 in RB. It was in a decent location to destroy some buildings, wreak general havoc, etc. When choice targets ran out, I tried to use another M-4 to push the immobile one to a better spot. I wasn't sure if the immobile tank had thrown a track or if the TC had been waxed. In any event, when I tried said maneuver, the AI chose to sneak around the immobile tank and go on its merry way. Other's with knowledge of the AI and a lot more knowledge of the armor than I pointed out that pushing an immobile vehicle (especially armor) is no easy deal on good ground or even a roadway. If the M-4 has thrown a track, the risk of damaging the tank that is doing the pushing is high—leaving you with two immobile tanks instead of one. (In CE, the ground is crap anyway for the armor; running infantry can traverse the damp open ground faster than armor on "fast.") As a result, the AI will only do so if no other options exist. In short, don't waste your time or expose what armor you have left to damage or destruction by fiddling around with an immobile tank. The immobile vehicle is now a pillbox. ------------------ I'm drinkin' wine, I'm eatin' cheese and catching some rays, you know. — Oddball [This message has been edited by Moriarty (edited 05-06-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moriarty Posted May 6, 2000 Share Posted May 6, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tom w: yes I think tanks can push tanks other players have indicated that when their tanks get bogged in the CE scenario they have attempted to use their other tanks to push them out... this seems to work I have used a Hellcat in LD to push a KO'd Hellcat off the road and out of my way... so I suspect it is intentional. any other observations... -tom w<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Regarding bogged vehicles, the AI will try to free the vehicles. Sometimes it works, sometimes they are stuck the rest of the game (more of the realism that make CM great!). You can try pushing them out, but generally the AI won't go for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juju Posted May 6, 2000 Author Share Posted May 6, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Juju: The shell intended for the Tiger breaks up. At that point (this is all going rather simultaneously) The Tiger seems to panic and reverses right into the Stu, pushing it several meters up the road. the road??<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Okay, yes, sure. What I meant to say is that The Tiger did not push the Stu intentionally. It just 'panicked' and reversed into it, trying to get out of harm's way. and not 'en route' to some objective (other than selfpreservation). The "can tanks push vehicles" line was really only an afterthought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
getthat_wreckoff_theroad Posted May 6, 2000 Share Posted May 6, 2000 What about 100 or so infantry trying to push a Stug off the road ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted May 7, 2000 Share Posted May 7, 2000 Great MG or arty target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juju Posted May 7, 2000 Author Share Posted May 7, 2000 Eh? sorry, I didn't quite catch that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PanzerLeader Posted May 7, 2000 Share Posted May 7, 2000 hehe..100 men stuck in 20 square meters...You could probably kill several with one bullet only! A machinegunner's dream Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
109 Gustav Posted May 8, 2000 Share Posted May 8, 2000 Not only can you push vehicles, but you'll notice they keep moving for a while if they get ko'd while moving. Full physics model. Shame CM doesn't simulate recovery tanks, which were used to drag cripples off the battlefield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyamoto Musashi Posted May 8, 2000 Share Posted May 8, 2000 Originally posted by Trooper: Weight is not an issue. What is an issue is initial friction and gearing ratios.. "It's not a question of where he GRIPS it... it's a question of weight ratios... a five-ounce bird cannot carry a two-pound coconut..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juju Posted May 8, 2000 Author Share Posted May 8, 2000 Depends... African or European? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Germanboy Posted May 8, 2000 Share Posted May 8, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 109 Gustav: Shame CM doesn't simulate recovery tanks, which were used to drag cripples off the battlefield.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Well, they sort of do, don't they? From what we have heard, between battles, abandoned vehicles can be recovered, so that simulates them very well. Of course you won't be able to enjoy running a Bergepanther into a Sherman ------------------ Andreas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juju Posted May 8, 2000 Author Share Posted May 8, 2000 And just because they CAN be recovered it's a wise thing to pump a couple of extra rounds into a KO'd tank that isn't burning yet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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