Is the Stuart the best tank ever made?

[Phil the Dill]

I can't say I have any 'proper' knowledge, however I think that the best tank (in terms of general usefullness) is the Stuart Light Tank. I can buy 2 of these excellent machienes fot the price of 1 tiger and they will outmatch it most days of the week. All you have to do is charge teh tiger from 2 sides and while the lumbering lumox tries to turn its turret to target you, at least one of your Stuarts is behind him and taking rear shots.

Not only this but after the Tiger has been destroyed your mighty Stuart can now charge around the map and devistate your opponents infantry with 3 machienguns.

I was just wondering if It was only me who noticed this or do other people think fast light tanks have an advantage? Also were many used, in reality, in WWII?

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Who says charging the enemy isn't the best policy?...

words of the late, "great" commander Haigh

[Colin]

It's a great tank but it's not the best tank ever made. Perhaps that honor goes to the Panther?

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And if we abandon any platform, I can assure you it will not be the Macintosh.

-Steve

My website!

[Wayne]

I've read where Stuarts were used like this by the 2nd Armored Div. near Aachen, but it was a rare event. I think that if the Tiger or any other German tank is properly placed with good infantry support, the Stuart would have a tough time. Any tank alone in enemy territory without infantry support is a sitting duck. It might work as a theoritical problem, but it isn't very realistic. The Germans just did'nt use their tanks in this manner, nor did the Allies if it could be helped. Correction: the British did use tanks without infantry support in the early days of the Normandy Campaign but they lost alot of tanks doing this.

You may get away with using Stuarts as lone TDs in your own designed scenarios or against an inexperienced opponent, but don't try it with someone who knows what he's doing.

However, your right in pointing out the weaknesses in the Tigers design. They were'nt the all powerfull tanks that many claime them to be. Don't underestimate that 88mm gun though. It will murder anything it hits.

Wayne

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Blessed be the Lord my strength who teaches my hands to war and my fingers to fight.

[Henri]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Phil the Dill:

All you have to do is charge teh tiger from 2 sides and while the lumbering lumox tries to turn its turret to target you, at least one of your Stuarts is behind him and taking rear shots.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's like grabbing a real tiger by the tail; it works great if you can do it, but the problem is getting behind the tiger

Henri

[Jarmo]

Phil, let's have armored PBEM of 1000 points.

You take only Stuarts,

I'll take only tigers.

[Miyamoto Musashi]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jarmo:

Phil, let's have armored PBEM of 1000 points.

You take only Stuarts,

I'll take only tigers. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The Staurt is a decent close quarters tank, but as was said before, if ther German player/AI is using his infantry and armor together correctly, the Stuart shouldn't have much of a shot at taking out a Tiger. As to the best tank question, I think I'd have to go with the Panther, as Colin said. For a more real world, decisive answer to this question, I wrote a user scenario pitting a few Panthers and Jagdpanthers against a horde of Ami machines. I haven't lost yet

(By the way, the scenario is only available from me directly at this time. Just e-mail me to try it)

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In fighting and in everyday life you should be determined though calm. Meet the situation without tenseness yet not recklessly, your spirit settled yet unbiased. An elevated spirit is weak and a low spirit is weak. Do not let the enemy see your spirit. -- M.M.

[Dan Weaver]

I'll try out the contrarian view... I say the M4A3(76)W+ HVSS Easy Eight Sherman is the equal of the Panther G (late).

First, the Easy Eight's got a faster turret. The tactical advantages of that should be obvious.

Second, the Easy Eight's got arguably better armor. While the turret armor is about 2 cm thinner, the upper hull armor is 3 cm thicker and the lower hull armor is 8 cm thicker. That means anti-tank infantry are going to have a tougher time with the Easy Eight. The Panther does have a big ol' slope on it's hull armor, though.

Third, the Easy Eight carries a few tungsten rounds that slice through the Panther's armor like a hot knife through butter. Inside of 500 yards, both tanks have about an equal chance of knocking each other out.

I think I'll do some in-game penetration tests.

The results are in. I put an elite Easy Eight and an elite late Panther G up against each other at distances of 450, 250, and 80 meters, 10 engagements at each. It was just a simple frontal armor vs. gun test; no tactics here.

450 m: Easy Eight 2, Panther 8

250 m: Easy Eight 4, Panther 6

80 m: Easy Eight 7, Panther 3

As you can see, the Panther does better until the turret traverse starts to matter. At long range, the Easy Eight needs to get lucky to kill the Panther, but the Panther can kill the Sherman just by hitting it in the turret or in the lower hull. At short range, the Easy Eight can get an easy kill on the lower hull and turret shots are a gamble. (1)

For now, conventional wisdom is correct. The Panther G (late) reigns supreme.

1. Something fishy happened. The Easy Eight was equipped with a few tungsten rounds, but never shot one in any of the 30 engagements! What exactly are the things there for if they're not going to be used against Panthers? Any comments, BTS?

[Formerly Babra]

How come everyone does tests with elite units? How about tests with regular units, which is what we use (or ought to use) 90% of the time.

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It's a mother-beautiful bridge and it's gonna be THERE.

[ntg84]

I hate um. One knocked out a panther of mine at 600m by hitting it at the weak spot. Then it proceeded to knock out an 88mm bunker and two 75mm bunkers. I thought it was the super stuart tank.

[Jarmo]

For the record,

in my opinion the King Tiger is the best AFV. 1 for 1 it beats anything.

It's not my favourite one, or the one I use most in this game.

Of course it isn't, it costs like more than a singing pig!

So why am I even writing this? Well, I had a point I was going to

make, but I forgot what it was. At least this is not off topic.

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Now, would this brilliant plan involve us climbing out of

our trenches and walking slowly towards the enemy sir?

[Guest grunto]

I prefer going up against Panthers in the sides and rear with a Stuart. The Tiger I is dicier.

The point about infantry support is a valid one. What if there are 3 pzks around?

That's where the additional 7 T8s transporting a platoon come in =grin=

Use M3A1s to transport MG units.

Attack with 14 T8s and 5 Stuarts with 3 M3A1s carrying assorted Baz and MGs.

The Stuarts provide more transport if needed.

For AFV pricing, with Germans the sweet spot on the is the SPW 250/8 and for Americans I still like the M8 HMC Gun Carrier even though it is now something like 58 points for regular with 1.03 patch.

Andy

[Dan Weaver]

Further testing has discovered that Allied TDs fire their tungsten ammo. This means that my own personal favorite AFV, the "Ferrari on tracks" AKA the M18 Hellcat, is the best tank ever made.

Dan