Alpha AAR battle available

[jkkuchar]

I have just uploaded a reverse-engineered scenario based on the classic AAR between Fionn Kelly and Martin Turewicz with the early Alpha version of CM. The scenario should be appearing at the combathq scenario depot in the next day or two, once they confirm that the file is ok:

http://combathq.thegamers.net/depot.html

The scenario is titled "Going to Town"

If you haven't already seen it, the original AAR can also be found at the combathq site, in the archives section.

Since it was reverse engineered using only the AAR as a guide, there may be some differences between what I made and what is in the AAR. Please feel free to contact me if you find such a discrepancy, and I will try to fix it (it would help if you also cite whatever information you used to identify the discrepancy).

I have not tried it out single-player, so I have no idea how well it will work out that way.

[Abbott]

Thanks for making this scenario. I remember following each and every report of this battle with intense interest. Can't wait to play it

[Bastables]

Thank you.

[Mikeydz]

Well, I'm sure Fionn and Moon will both take a peek and let you know the accuracy of the map.

[Henri]

Possible spoilers....

This is a great scenario, and I am grateful to Abbott for making it available. I am presently playing two pbem games with the Germans and so far the issue is in doubt. There is ONE glaring omission on the map (see below).

In the AAR, Steve explains that the game is strongly biased in favor of the Allies (what the hell came over me to choose the Germans twice? , I shoulda re-read Fionn's AAR first...).

As Fionn says in his AAR, if the Germans lose the Panther early on, they are in big trouble, because racing through enemy territory with halftracks against enemy tanks is tantamount to suicide.

But there is worst: although the author has done a good job of replicating the scenario, he forgot to put in two small hills on the Allied right flank; in Fionn's AAR, the cover offered by those two hills was critical to giving him a fighting chance, even WITH the Panther.The absence of those hills allows the US player to sit back and wait for the reinforcements to show themselves and to pick them off.It is unlikely that the German player will succeed in killing all five Allied tanks with his three tanks, especially since they are constrained to move along roads in woods crawling with enemy bazookas that have a good chance of getting at least one of the German tanks.

The German should not be able to hold on to the town without reinforcements, since they are strongly outnumbered and because they have no artillery, whereas the attacking infantry are well endowed (in one pbem game, two buildings collapsed on mny units in a one minute segment).

To balance the game, it is imperative that the two hills be put back so that the Germans have at least the THREAT of using them for cover and to prevent the Allies from holing up in the far corner with three tanks near the river waiting for the Germans to poke their noses out of the woods (as one of my opponents is wisely doing... :mad .

In order to balance the game a bit more, I would suggest giving the Germans in the town a couple of mortars to avoid the tactic of the Allies grouping two platoons together on the German right flank and overwhelming it (boy if I only had a mortar to shoot into those woods...).

This scenario has the potential to be one of the most tense pbem scneario available, but it is a bit too unbvalanced at the moment.

Henri

[jkkuchar]

Henri said: "But there is worst: although the author has done a good job of replicating the scenario, he forgot to put in two small hills on the Allied right flank"

Hmmm. Can you be more specific about where these hills are? I did include 2 hills toward the south side of the map which were apparent from the AAR. One is along a small clump of scattered trees (one of Martin's Shermans started hull down there), and the other larger one is parallel to the road that cuts south just in front of the edge of the big mass of woods to the east. This is the hill where Fionn had sent a halftrack on the east side which was ambushed by a bazooka by Martin. I thought I had pretty faithfully replicated these 2 hills, but perhaps they are not high enough, or I missed some other hills somewhere. The hills as placed do, for example, block LOS from the starting position of Martin's southernmost Sherman to much of that road. As far as I could tell from the AAR, there was a pretty good LOS to the exits of all the roads from the woods. If you find a picture from the AAR that shows the hills which I forgot, I'd appreciate knowing it so I can fix it.

Henri also said: "In order to balance the game a bit more, I would suggest giving the Germans in the town a couple of mortars"

This may be true. However, I wanted to replicate the scenario as accurately as possible, even if it is unbalanced. If someone would like to make variants to better balance it, that's fine, but I'll leave that to someone else.

- Jim

[Bamse]

Help ! It's crashing back to desktop every time

Björn Elfström

[Henri]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jkkuchar:

Hmmm. Can you be more specific about where these hills are? I did include 2 hills toward the south side of the map which were apparent from the AAR. One is along a small clump of scattered trees (one of Martin's Shermans started hull down there), and the other larger one is parallel to the road that cuts south just in front of the edge of the big mass of woods to the east. This is the hill where Fionn had sent a halftrack on the east side which was ambushed by a bazooka by Martin. I thought I had pretty faithfully replicated these 2 hills, but perhaps they are not high enough, or I missed some other hills somewhere. The hills as placed do, for example, block LOS from the starting position of Martin's southernmost Sherman to much of that road. As far as I could tell from the AAR, there was a pretty good LOS to the exits of all the roads from the woods. If you find a picture from the AAR that shows the hills which I forgot, I'd appreciate knowing it so I can fix it.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I tried to find them from Fionn's AAR, but since there are no movie files, it is difficult and I did not succeed in finding them except for Fionn's text mentioning them. My understanding is that they are about halfway between the road exit on the German left flank and the river.

In one of my pbem games, the Allies have 3 tanks sitting near the river on that flank, with a clear line of sight to all three road exits, so that none of my vehicles can exit the woods without being put under immediate fire from those tanks.

At lunch I checked for the two hills in your map and did not find them, which indicates that they may be too small (I'll look again tonight, since I didn't have much time at lunch). As the map lies, the Allies could put all five tanks hull down on the slope near the river and be able to pick off German units exiting from any of the three roads, which I find is a bit much and which pretty much guarantees an Allied victory unless the German player is blessed with incredible luck of knocking off five Allied tanks (including a Jumbo) with a Panther and 2 PZIVs (plus a Puma) that are impossible to coordinate to exit the woods at the same time, assuming that all 3 tanks avoid the bazooka ambushes and/or are not immobilized in the snow.

In understand you rreluctance to add things to the map that were not on the original Alpha map, but my suggestions apply to anyone who is willing to modify the map to give the Germans a fighting chance.

Although unbalanced, a great scenario, congratulations.

Henri

[iggi]

Yes Henri, I am hull down at the river waiting for your cav to save the day. There are two small hills near your side. You should go there . It is a good spot to put your tank in overwatch as your infantry advances.

iggi

[jkkuchar]

Henri,

Take a look at http://combathq.thegamers.net/battle/Turn12x/backe12d.JPG

which shows the terrain in front of the woods from the AAR. I think the hill in my map doesn't extend quite as far south as the one shown there, but it's pretty close. In any case, it looks like a pretty clear shot from the river to the road exiting the woods.

[Henri]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jkkuchar:

Henri,

Take a look at http://combathq.thegamers.net/battle/Turn12x/backe12d.JPG

which shows the terrain in front of the woods from the AAR. I think the hill in my map doesn't extend quite as far south as the one shown there, but it's pretty close. In any case, it looks like a pretty clear shot from the river to the road exiting the woods.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Fionn told me that he would have a look and let me know. I finally found the hill by opening the new scenario in the editor. The flat terrain is at level 7 and the two small hills are level 8, which means 2.5 m high. These are not very big hills, and probably not enough to block LOS between vehicles. I wonder how high they were in the original scenario? Actually I killed a tanka few minutes ago which I think has a lOS over one of those hills.

Henri