swamp Posted September 1, 2000 Share Posted September 1, 2000 does the information here show that the panther is hulldown or that both tanks are hulldown?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joeri Posted September 1, 2000 Author Share Posted September 1, 2000 Swamp, According to my interpretation of the manual it shows that both the Panther and the Jumbo are hull down. Joeri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L.Tankersley Posted September 1, 2000 Share Posted September 1, 2000 I agree that (the game is indicating that) both tanks are hull-down. It's hard to tell from this view, but it looks to me as though the Tiger^H^H^H^H^HPanther might be sitting next to a small rise which could be granting hull-down status. ------------------ Leland J. Tankersley [This message has been edited by L.Tankersley (edited 09-01-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IntelWeenie Posted September 1, 2000 Share Posted September 1, 2000 Swamp, what is the unit scale in that pic? I'm guessing it's not set to "realistic". The reason I ask is because the LOS line seems to emenate from underneath the tank, not from the turret. Or is this another case of the visual representation not reflecting the actual game calculations? FWIW, notice the small 'hump' in the LOS line in front of the Panther. This is something I've learned to use to show me that I will likely have a hull down position to a certain point. ------------------ "Belly to belly and everything's better" - Russian proverb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swamp Posted September 1, 2000 Share Posted September 1, 2000 no, it's a panther, and the scale is realistic, what might throw you off is that it is zoomed in yes there is a hump infront of the panther which allows it to be hulldown to enemies infront of it and infact the panther is hulldown to the jumbo also note that the los path hugs the ground when it has to rise upward from the base of the targeter to the target the question of concern of this thread asks if the game incorrectly calculates a tank as hulldown when it actually is not in the screenshot here it indicates "hull down" in two locations, I figure the "hull down" under the panther means it is hull down, but does the "hull down" under the jumbo mean the jumbo is hull down, or is it repeating the same information that the panther is in hulldown status to the jumbo. I checked the manual and couldn't find this information, the newer manual version might have it in all that aside, if this screenshot says the jumbo is hull down to the panther then I am having the same problem as Joeri also the exchange if fire had the panthers rounds hitting the jumbos turret which makes me more suspicious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L.Tankersley Posted September 1, 2000 Share Posted September 1, 2000 The game is definitely saying that the Jumbo is hull-down (w.r.t. the Panther). The Jumbo's too far away and the viewing angle isn't very good to judge the terrain the Jumbo is sitting on. [The info text doesn't help, either.] I'd be interested in a shot from the Panther's location looking directly at the Jumbo, and also a reciprocal shot back from the Jumbo at the Panther. The Jumbo is plainly up on a hill, the question is where is it in relation to the crest, and where (or if) the line-of-fire from the Panther intersects the ground. ------------------ Leland J. Tankersley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swamp Posted September 1, 2000 Share Posted September 1, 2000 here's another angle even though the first ones better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swamp Posted September 1, 2000 Share Posted September 1, 2000 L. Tankersley said: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>The game is definitely saying that the Jumbo is hull-down (w.r.t. the Panther). <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> ok, you're confirming what joeri said, thank you then I gotta agree with joeri and say this is a bug that calculates one tank, in relationship with another, as being hulldown(when it is not) when the other tank is hulldown in relation to it(which it is) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L.Tankersley Posted September 1, 2000 Share Posted September 1, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> here's another angle even though the first ones better<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I dunno. It's hard to say for sure, but it looks like there's a small crest near the edge of the grainfield. Maybe that is obscuring the view from Panther to the lower part of the Jumbo? The obstacle doesn't HAVE to be adjacent to the target (although that's probably the most common situation). At any rate, I think we can say with some certainty that the game does not assign hull-down status to both firer and target (solely) because one is hull-down. It may be that there is a problem with the hull-down calculation; that's what Charles is looking into. ------------------ Leland J. Tankersley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swamp Posted September 1, 2000 Share Posted September 1, 2000 ok, well enjoy another screenshot this is realistic scale and not an inch of the jumbos hull is down(from the co's shoulder) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L.Tankersley Posted September 1, 2000 Share Posted September 1, 2000 LOL. Ok, now how about one with the troops waving to the camera? And could you adjust the lighting some? ------------------ Leland J. Tankersley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Galanti Posted September 1, 2000 Share Posted September 1, 2000 I've noticed the same thing, but never put it to a test. It does seem that hull down works correctly behind walls, but against just plain terrain, it always seems like both vehciles are hull down. Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joeri Posted September 2, 2000 Author Share Posted September 2, 2000 Hi Did some more testing this evening. I tried (really hard) to create a situation with non-reciprocal hull down using elevations. I could not do it. I also tried the wall as cueball suggested. That worked just fine. Only one hull down marker on the tank just behind the wall. Also the shooting went fine. The tank which wasn't hull down got a fair amount of lower hull hits (I think 4 in about 40-50 shots). The tank behind the wall got non and only a few upper hull hits. Joeri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juardis Posted September 2, 2000 Share Posted September 2, 2000 Just curious, but why are you guys still trying to prove hull down or not? Charles already posted that he'd look into it. ------------------ Jeff Abbott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joeri Posted September 2, 2000 Author Share Posted September 2, 2000 You are right Jeff, we should let Charles sort it out. The reason I continued is that I want to know how to play my current PBEM's. In my opinion, walls have now gained a lot in tactical value. And going hull down in the terain can be a disadvantage now (depending what you're up against). Again, just for my current PBEM's. Maybe I should have kept my mouth shut and just take advantage of it Joeri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarmo Posted September 2, 2000 Share Posted September 2, 2000 So what about being hit in the hull while hull down? Is only the lower hull considered to be "down". Or can you be hit anywhere while hull down? ------------------ Now, would this brilliant plan involve us climbing out of our trenches and walking slowly towards the enemy sir? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The CM Borg Posted September 2, 2000 Share Posted September 2, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Joeri: Hi Guys, This is my first post so I would like to say hello to everyone first. I received CM a couple of weeks ago and I have been playing ever since. What a great game! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> You have been assimilated. Report to the Science Deck ------------------ Resistance is Futile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juardis Posted September 2, 2000 Share Posted September 2, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Joeri: Maybe I should have kept my mouth shut and just take advantage of it Joeri<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Not sure what the winky icon means, but don't misunderstand me. You found a problem with the game that, if fixed, will make the game better. Kudos to you, a job well done. I was just wondering why it's still being discussed as if it were an inexplicable problem when Charles said that it WAS a problem and that he's on it. That's all. Again, good job in finding something that escaped everyone else. ------------------ Jeff Abbott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted September 2, 2000 Share Posted September 2, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jarmo: So what about being hit in the hull while hull down? Is only the lower hull considered to be "down". Or can you be hit anywhere while hull down? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> If the peak of the shells arc is high enough and the vehicle is far enough from the heap behind which it is hiding its hull, then the shell can hit any spot. The slower the shells velocity and the greater the distance, the more arched the flight path is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarmo Posted September 2, 2000 Share Posted September 2, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sergei: If the peak of the shells arc is high enough and the vehicle is far enough from the heap behind which it is hiding its hull, then the shell can hit any spot. The slower the shells velocity and the greater the distance, the more arched the flight path is.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I doubt it's modeled like that. Anyway, if that were the case, the vehicle in question wouldn't actually be hull down. Jarmo ------------------ Now, would this brilliant plan involve us climbing out of our trenches and walking slowly towards the enemy sir? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swamp Posted September 3, 2000 Share Posted September 3, 2000 I agree with joeri that hulldown can be a disadvantage now if the otherwise non-hulldown tank has a strong turret I sure hope bts is on it I'm surprise more people are not ackowledging the problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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