This Todd Posted November 1, 2000 Share Posted November 1, 2000 Why exactly would someone ever want to play with no fog of war in a multiplayer game? I ran into someone tonight (who shall remain unnamed) who wasted my time by having me set up a 2500 point attack. With all of the units at my disposal, it took quite a long time to place them all. I eagerly load up the PBEM file and... I see every single one of his infantry, tanks, vehicles, artillery, guns, and more. He apparently failed to mention that this was a game w/o any fog of war... not even partial. Why would ANYONE set up a PBEM game like this? It doesn't force realistic tactics, and it's not fun. Since I know where all of his infantry are hiding, I can just have any of my five 81mm spotters (yeah, five... hehe) to blast him off the map. Very exciting. If I may, I'd like to suggest a new feature for CM2 or for future versions of CM: a way for the person who doesn't set up a PBEM game to see all of the settings. That is, at the setup stage it would be nice to see a simple list explaining that it's a medium-sized attack game with moderate forest, few hills, and it's set in a rural area. It would also list whether or not attackers or defenders have bonuses or penalties as well as the fog of war setting. This way a PBEM opponent knows immediately whether or not to invest the time to play. Thanks, Todd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
securityguard Posted November 1, 2000 Share Posted November 1, 2000 poor you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Todd Posted November 1, 2000 Author Share Posted November 1, 2000 Securityguard, it's apparent from your post that you're someone who doesn't mind wasting your time. Too bad we aren't all that way. -- Todd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamstersss Posted November 1, 2000 Share Posted November 1, 2000 In cyberspace, no one can hear you get peeved... ------------------ I've got far more annoying things than that up my sleeve. -Meeks You must wear awfully loose shirts to fit an oompah band up your sleeve. -Chrisl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
securityguard Posted November 1, 2000 Share Posted November 1, 2000 i did after i read your post -sg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitty Posted November 1, 2000 Share Posted November 1, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Elijah Meeks: In cyberspace, no one can hear you get peeved... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> What do you mean? =| Kitty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Todd Posted November 1, 2000 Author Share Posted November 1, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by securityguard: i did after i read your post -sg<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Thank goodness you felt the need to spend more time commenting on it. Do you actually have anything constructive to add to this, or are you just trying to increase your post total? -- Todd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill Wilder Posted November 1, 2000 Share Posted November 1, 2000 Hindsight, of course, but I strongly recommend you spell out the rules for PBEM before you start. It does save a lot of bruised feelings down the road. As to the why, only your opponent can answer that. Perhaps he inadvertently set it that way. Ask him. Explain to him you just don't play that way. If he can't accept that, you probably don't want to play him anyway. ------------------ Wild Bill Lead Tester Scenario Design Team Combat Mission-Beyond Overlord billw@matrixgames.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Todd Posted November 1, 2000 Author Share Posted November 1, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Wild Bill Wilder: Hindsight, of course, but I strongly recommend you spell out the rules for PBEM before you start. It does save a lot of bruised feelings down the road.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> The rules were spelled out pretty well... we'd agreed on terrain, the type of attack, the number of points, etc. That it would utilize at least partial fog of war seemed like a no brainer. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>As to the why, only your opponent can answer that. Perhaps he inadvertently set it that way. Ask him.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I don't know if it was inadvertent at this point. Yet another reason, though, why it would be nice to see those settings ex post facto. In case of an error like that, it would save everyone the time of placing units only to discover that the settings are incorrect. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Explain to him you just don't play that way. If he can't accept that, you probably don't want to play him anyway.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Well of course I don't want to play him with settings like that. I was wondering, actually, why anyone would want to play a multiplayer game with fog of war off. It turns CM into QM... Quake Mission. There's a whole lot of mindless death, but there's not a whole lot of strategy. I'll avoid playing a PBEM with this individual in the future, but the time was already invested in setting up units. That was my biggest gripe. -- Todd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MantaRay Posted November 1, 2000 Share Posted November 1, 2000 Maybe it was an accident. When I design my scenarios I take it off. Maybe he just clicked through it by accident...or maybe not. never happened to me. Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Yomtov Posted November 1, 2000 Share Posted November 1, 2000 I suggest that you cut your opponent a little slack. Even with the benefits of cyber-warfare and the "Press GO!" factor (sorely missing in real combat), the bottom line is that **** happens. I empathize that you wasted some time on your buy and setup. It's surely annoying. But don't write the dude off, just yet cause he screwed up once...... You'll get your chance to make a similar SNAFU in the future, and you'd hate to establish some sort of rep on that basis, wouldn't you? ------------------ The best-laid battle plans rarely survive first contact with the enemy. [This message has been edited by David Yomtov (edited 11-01-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Todd Posted November 1, 2000 Author Share Posted November 1, 2000 It could indeed have been by accident. The individual in question seemed surprised to hear about the fog of war setting in e-mail. Which again begs the question... wouldn't some feature showing the settings be nice? It could have prevented us both from wasting our time setting up. -- Todd [This message has been edited by This Todd (edited 11-01-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Captitalistdoginchina Posted November 1, 2000 Share Posted November 1, 2000 So what you are saying is that you flew of at the deep end, slagged off your oponnent publicly, dragged him thru the mud kicked him while he was down and then decided to check and see if it was an accident or not ......Hmmmm. Time to calm down, relax, take a chill pill and be happy The best way to settle it would be to send him a new setup and make sure you win.....or lose and be forever sorry CDIC ------------------ "Death solves all problems - no man no problem" J.V.Stalin, 1918 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitty Posted November 1, 2000 Share Posted November 1, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Captitalistdoginchina: So what you are saying is that you flew of at the deep end, slagged off your oponnent publicly, dragged him thru the mud kicked him while he was down and then decided to check and see if it was an accident or not ......Hmmmm. Time to calm down, relax, take a chill pill and be happy The best way to settle it would be to send him a new setup and make sure you win.....or lose and be forever sorry CDIC <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Since he didn't mention his opponents name it can't really be labled mud dragging. I don't think he really "flew off the handle" either. I also think that he said what he said to make the point that he feels the game could use a couple additions to show setup info to PBEM opponents. =) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Todd Posted November 1, 2000 Author Share Posted November 1, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Captitalistdoginchina: So what you are saying is that you flew of at the deep end, slagged off your oponnent publicly, dragged him thru the mud kicked him while he was down and then decided to check and see if it was an accident or not ......Hmmmm.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Oh, come on now. I never mentioned his name, and the point of the post had far less to do with attacking him than with: a) criticizing those who turn off fog of war for multiplayer games INTENTIONALLY, and offering suggestions for how CM could prevent accidents and/or differences in philosophy from wasting PBEMers' time. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Time to calm down, relax, take a chill pill and be happy The best way to settle it would be to send him a new setup and make sure you win.....or lose and be forever sorry <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I don't mind if I win or lose. It's wasting over an hour setting up a stillborn game that really bothers me, mistake or not. Now I'll go back to my other fully fogged PBEM games whose settings I know nothing about other than what I'm told. -- Todd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MantaRay Posted November 1, 2000 Share Posted November 1, 2000 See that is the wonderful thing about this game though. You will have a multitude of people who will play the game correctly, for many years to come. That is why CM means: Classic Masterpiece. Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeWary Posted November 1, 2000 Share Posted November 1, 2000 Well, I actually like Todd's idea. If not simply for piece of mind, it would be a good double-checking feature. BeWary ------------------ "Liberty or Death?" Make it "Victory or Pretty Damned Badly Wounded", and I'm yours. - a prospective recruit during the American Revolution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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