istari Posted October 20, 2000 Share Posted October 20, 2000 Sorry if this has been covered previously, but my search of past topics didn't turn this up. My question is this: I look at the armor plating on light vehicles like the M3 Halftrack (~7mm) or M3A1 White Scout car, and I wonder at what range (if any) regular small arms fire can penetrate them. Can I use a M3 Halftrack to assault right up to a line of German infantry firing their Mausers? Or will their rifles (or attached MG-42) begin penetrating under a certain range? I ask because I remember reading something in the General years ago about the difference in protection between the Wehrmacht SPW and the M3 in protection against small-arms fire, but I can't remember the details! Thanks for the help. Chris Johnson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chupacabra Posted October 20, 2000 Share Posted October 20, 2000 It's a bad idea to get HTs too close to infantry in any case. Whether they small arms penetrate or not will be the least of your worries when grenades are flying around and blowing everything up. I've never seen an HT get taken out by small arms fire alone, but I suppose it could happen. ------------------ Soy super bien, soy super super bien, soy bien bien super bien bien bien super super. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamstersss Posted October 20, 2000 Share Posted October 20, 2000 I have seen abandons, knock outs and catastrophic explosions to the Sd/Kfz2 from small arms fire. I've only seen other HTs taken out by MGs and grenades. ------------------ Did someone compare this to the Ealing comedies? I've shot people for less. -David Edelstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schugger Posted October 21, 2000 Share Posted October 21, 2000 istari BTS has put up some armour penetration diagrams for small arms vs HT, but I'm unable to locate them, so everything I say here is from my memory. The german MG42 ( wether the one which is incorporated in an infantry squad or the heavy variant) can penetrate the M3 HTs frontally up to a range of 250 meters. The US .50 cal MG can penetrate the german HTs ( 250 or 251 variants) up to a range of 1500 meters frontally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfe Posted October 21, 2000 Share Posted October 21, 2000 http://www.bigtimesoftware.com/images/mgvsht.jpg - Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
istari Posted October 22, 2000 Author Share Posted October 22, 2000 Excellent diagrams. Thanks guys. Now I understand why Allied air support is so devastating to Axis halftrack columns (a P-47D with 8 x 0.50cal would love the look of those penetration charts!) However, I was curious if anyone has any information about mm of steel penetration for normal ball ammo for rifles (Mauser K98, M1 Garand) and for MGs. But I think I'm seeing that M3 halftrack assaults are not such a hot idea against infantry squads, considering everyone of them has an MG-42 integral to their organization. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
109 Gustav Posted October 22, 2000 Share Posted October 22, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by istari: But I think I'm seeing that M3 halftrack assaults are not such a hot idea against infantry squads, considering everyone of them has an MG-42 integral to their organization. Chris<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> They are excellent against inf, especially for pinning units, but you can't bring them to knife fighting range. The grenades start to fly at about 40m, so stay farther back than that. ------------------ Charon doesn't make change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfe Posted October 22, 2000 Share Posted October 22, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>But I think I'm seeing that M3 halftrack assaults are not such a hot idea against infantry squads, considering everyone of them has an MG-42 integral to their organization.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> As Gustav says, don't get them *too* close, but a platoon of roving HTs planting a platoon of infantry right into battle and then supporting them by pinning the enemy inf has real good shock value. Enemy MGs are usually set further back, so aren't quite as deadly. Just watch out for those shrecks and fausts. I've been hammered in my recent games by those damn things! And remember, starting with 1.05 (or was it 1.04?), BTS lowered the odds of a crew bailing from a vehicle with anything less than serious damage. Also, MG fire is now much less accurate (.50 cals previously were murdering German HTs). And don't forget about the British Ram Kangaroo. I don't think regular infantry weapons rifles, SMG, etc., can hurt HTs. Atleast I don't recall seeing any losses to them. - Chris [This message has been edited by Wolfe (edited 10-22-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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