Good bye and good luck...

[:USERNAME:]

I think the forum is better. A greater sampling of opinions is always better. And veteran's input far outwieghs armchair warriors "I would think it would be like this..." dopey comments.

Anyone can stare at a picture in a book and come up with a dumb opinion of what it was like to be in combat. I wish alot of people here would just hike 10 miles and dig a foxhole. I can only imagine the results. Better yet, run in combat boots for just a quarter mile.

I thought the "old" forum was an inbred situation with gobs of fawning thrown in for good measure. 1.03 and beyond should benefit from the new people.

VIVA LA NEW FORUM!!!!!

Lewis

[MrPeng]

Perhaps a good Penging is in order here...probably not. I suspect that it is posters of my ilk MrPeltz seeks to avoid.

Get the chaplain to punch your TS card.

If the place is no fun anymore, then be gone. If you can wade through the drivel and whining and inanity that people like me create, fine. Whatever floats your boat.

Some will miss you, some will not, and others who post many moons from now will have never heard of you and wont care.

So what? Who does really care. When one has had one's liver removed by Berlichtingeneinginsin as many times as I have, one cares about very little anymore except revenge.

Good Luck in all of your endeavors MrPeltz.

Peng

------------------

A Journey of a thousand miles starts with a single gunshot wound to the foot.

[Fionn]

Sheesh Peng. Being a bit bitchy aren't you?

Seriously, that's probably the first post from you which I've thought was totally uncalled for.

[:USERNAME:]

This is as bad as that gay*lover thread. People started getting all pontifical and politically perfect over someone that was just a put on (I suspect it was some one here.. perhaps even in this own thread..lets just call him "Lord of the Prance").

Anyway. I aint buying into this hissy-fit BS. If you wuz in my army and pulled a stunt like this here Peltz, I'd bury half a jump boot up your wazoo.

Lewis

[Freyland]

Sorry to have to say this, but when I ever leave an online community that is important to me, I *email* the people who I care about, and not make a blanket posting so that everyone can focus on me and feel bad about my absence. Kevin is not the first person to do this, but the other person came back. Makes my point even more significant. This post should truly be locked up and put out of its misery.

Jonathan

No emails sent so far!

[panzer_2nd_ss]

lighten up everybody,i mean this is only a gaming forum. if someone says something you dont agree with just ignore it and move on. i know im new here so you can tell me to get lost if you want. just my opinion.

[Fionn]

Sheesh Jonathan,

If Kevin doesn't do things your way that doesn't make it "wrong" for him to do them his way.

Lusername,

Oh give it a break. I have better things to do than pretend to be other people and really if you want to start something just have the guts to stand up and say it straight instead of insinuating something.

To be honest I thought it was YOU since I knew you'd been itching to mouth off at someone. I thought you couldn't wait for someone to show up so invented a gay alter ego of yourself for you to attack.

[Reckall]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fionn:

Of course, in the same way as bad money drives good out of circulation so bad posters drive good posters out of the forum. It's just the natural way of things.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Fionn, I disagree. The only sure way to go out of circulation is to go out of circulation If you don't do it, it doesn't happens.

I may have "junior member" near my name, because I do not post a lot, but I follow CM since AH announced that had signed with BTS to bring ASL on the monitor, and I almost remember by heart the "letter of purpose" written by Charles when still everybody thought that it would have been turn based with hexes ("...And an Artificial Intelligence which will deserve to be called * Intelligence *..." or something like this ) And if someone from BTS would be so curious to post the date when I pre-ordered CM you would be surprised.

All of this not to boast my "seniority" on this board, but only to say that I have seen almost everything on it, and that a very good percentage of this "everything" was/is quite interesting and simulating, exp. now that the game is out. The rest, I simply ignore (Professor Xavier would say "Stay with the best, ignore the rest ). In a way, I belive that the only concrete way to actively lower the quality of this board content's is to go away from it. I'm talking about YOU, intelligent and stimulating poster, that are reading my words just now. If an idiot posts a message abount the sanctity of SS he only generates a noise that can be easly filtered, but if a valid and constructive member of our community goes away, a part of it is lost forever. I belive I'll continue to post

Regards,

Vincenzo Beretta

Milan - Italy

[Fionn]

"Fionn, I disagree. The only sure way to go out of circulation is to go out of circulation If you don't do it, it doesn't happens."

Ah, you're correct of course Vincenzo but, in my defence, I'd say that if people hound some worthwhile posters then it is not surprising to me that worthwhile posters disappear. I know a few who aren't posting anymore after being attacked by one of a small group of people here who seem to be combative.

People don't leave for no reason and it would be incorrect to forget the context when someone leaves. If someone is personally attacked and then leaves it is incorrect to say that they left for no reason. They left DIRECTLY because of the personal attack.

It is also incorrect to simply urge these victims to ignore the attacks. I have held a consistent viewpoint since before X-mas that unless the forum began policing itself and protecting valuable members from attack that these members would leave/stop posting and that the forum would go downhill.

As far as I'm concerned what I predicted back then has happened and the value of the forum has spiralled downwards quickly. Not only that but the number of trolls etc has increased.

Still, it's not my worry. After what happened with Lewis before I left last time and the lack of public reaction to it the amount of time and effort I devote to this forum and answering questions etc has been cut way back.

Basically, I speak from experience in saying that posters who have contributed much and could continue to contribute feel themselves being driven out by various other elements and trolls.

Of course, nothing will be done about it this time either . Such is life.

[Guest Bad Ju Ju]

Fionn stated:"People don't leave for no reason and it would be incorrect to forget the context when someone leaves."

Apart from the inelegant double negative, Fionn, it seems odd, your supporting the "rightness" or soundness of people leaving this forum to which you so frequently post. Although I have by no means read all of your posts, those I have read over recent times have been very contrarian and, dare I say, even mean. So it surprises me to see you say that the people who leave are wise, thoughtful posters who have been "attacked" by droves of dolts who just recently discovered CM.

I can't figure it out. Obviously, you are an intelligent person who has contributed greatly to CM and the gaming community. Why bash this board or gloat as people feel they "must" leave? Maybe this board "wasn't what it once was," but I think it still has great value. To pout off stamping your feet over a very few inane posts is, well, childish. BTS, close this thread.

[:USERNAME:]

I got this to say:

CoolColJ

[Flipper]

If your gonna leave could you at least say who or what is bugging you I hate it when i'm

wondering what it was, man this is like tearing the last page of a book out, flame the....

person's or person who's got you bothered!

[:USERNAME:]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fionn:

[b

Still, it's not my worry. After what happened with Lewis before I left last time and the lack of public reaction to it the amount of time and effort I devote to this forum and answering questions etc has been cut way back.

Of course, nothing will be done about it this time either B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Forget the double negatives.. is this english? Let us in on the ground floor Fionn. I mean what the F*** are you even talking about?

Lewis

[Freyland]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fionn:

Sheesh Jonathan,

If Kevin doesn't do things your way that doesn't make it "wrong" for him to do them his way.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wow. If there were an award for the the pot calling the kettle black, you just won it hands down. I am in awe of your obliviousness, Fionn.

Jonathan

[:USERNAME:]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fionn:

Lusername,

Oh give it a break. I have better things to do than pretend to be other people and really if you want to start something just have the guts to stand up and say it straight instead of insinuating something.

.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

WHO THE HELL SAID IT WAS YOU!!!!???? I was talking about Peng.

Thou does protest too much though.

Lewis

[Fionn]

Bad Ju Ju,

Do you REALLY feel the need to criticise the inelegant usage of double negatives? I mean, is that really something which belongs in a reasoned discussion?

And you went on to say" Fionn, it seems odd, your supporting the "rightness" or soundness of people leaving this forum to which you so frequently post."

It only sounds odd to you I'm sure. You must be pretty new right? I've ALWAYS supported the right of people to leave when they feel hassled and, as a matter of fact, I've predicted this trend long before it began because I could see what was bound to happen given the degeneration which set in about Novembet. I assure you it won't seem odd to others who've been here longer than you.

" Although I have by no means read all of your posts, "

Obviously.

" those I have read over recent times have been very contrarian and, dare I say, even mean."

Ah, would these be the ones where I argued for equal treatment of soldiers regardless of which side they fought on or the posts where I encouraged people to dip their toes in the water that is combat mission OR the ones in which I explained gameplay issues?

Or would these be the posts where I got a little p'oed that someone would pull me up for referencing a post they had expressly stated I could reply to in public?

"So it surprises me to see you say that the people who leave are wise, thoughtful posters who have been "attacked" by droves of dolts who just recently discovered CM."

I NEVER used the term dolts. I happen to think that most of the newbies are just fine. However there is a certain subgroup there which is argumentative, ill-informed and, worst of all, doesn't even acknowledge how little it knows.

This kind of attitude drives out the more old-timer and more considered posters who have spent years reading and considering these issues.

|"Why bash this board or gloat as people feel they "must" leave? "

I'm NOT bashing this board and I'm certainly not gloating as people feel they must leave. I am LAMENTING that these people feel they must leave. I have ten times more respect for Kevin Verdon than I do for those who upset him. I could name a dozen others who know their stuff and whom I respect for their research and openness who have left in the past 6 months and without whom the board is poorer. I amn't gloating. I am lamenting their departure.

Quite honestly I'd have to say that to even think I'm gloating and bashing the board says a lot about how much you misunderstand me Bad Ju Ju. If you want to write me privately and clarify this misunderstanding I'd be more than willing to clear it up.

However, in summary I would like nothing better than a forum in which knowledgeable people could post free from snide little attacks and the various little games which go on around here. I want nothing more than for this forum to be a great place for newbies to come and increase their understanding.

However, I'm also a realist and speak my mind when I think it is sliding downhill. Speaking my mind pragmatically is NOT the same as revelling in that downward spiral it is merely a recognition of that spiral.

What you're doing is a little akin to shooting the messenger Bad Ju JU .

Jonathan,

Great, where do I pick it up? .

Username,

Ah, my mistake. You were nebulous enough to allow another conclusion to be drawn. So, in recognition of my error I apologise for it k?

[Mark IV]

I have tried to think of clever things to say but this is a very troubling thread to me and I wish it were closed.

It has led some folks I respect to make unwarranted attacks on people I also respect, and y'all can take that however you like.

I like the news, the Op-Ed page, and the funny page, and I've been buying the whole "paper" for some time now. I don't think it's good for newcomers or the Game to see any kind of holier-than-thou flamey junk. From anybody.

A little polemicism is fine with me, too (spice in the soup). But sustained personal attacks and religious zeal about a GAME are stupid. I wish M. Pelz would stay around, but I'm sure he's a big boy and has decided it isn't worth it, for him... I've had those thoughts from time to time, but there are idiots that need representation....

Final advice: read ALL the words, objectively, before responding.

[:USERNAME:]

Oh Yeah:

Capt Manieri

[BFCElvis]

As a long time member of this board I must defend Fionn on at least one point here. He has at times been a target for hammerheads and it has affected the information I have access to because he is an excellent and willing giver of detailed and cool information. So Fionn being less likely to post here has affected me.

Although Peng may have stated it stronger than some have liked he has a point. We must remember that this is a one dimensional form of communication . No one is hearing the tone of peoples voices or seeing their body language. Because of that things should be taken with a grain of salt. For instance I have seen many posts by Lewis that I thought were funny and intended as being funny that were interpruted as attacks. I was misunderstood because of my poor writing skills the other day and just decided to drop the subject because it wasn't worth spending the time getting into a debate over.

My feelings about the current board is that if more people are in here that is a great thing. A basic law of sociology is that "whenever two or more people are put in a situation for an extended period of time there will be conflict". So the more people that are interested in CM the better it is for the game and the higher the likelyhood of conflict. So we should all just deal with it.

------------------

"To conquer death you only have to die" JC

[:USERNAME:]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fionn:

However, I'm also a realist and speak my mind when I think it is sliding downhill. Speaking my mind pragmatically is NOT the same as revelling in that downward spiral it is merely a recognition of that spiral.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL!!!!! I am literally holding my stomach. I think Im going to puke!!!!!!

ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh damn that was some funny s***.....

Lewis

[:USERNAME:]

PS I am a surrealist and i speak my mind when I think it is ascending a down escalator..

oh, my stomach hurts

[This message has been edited by :USERNAME: (edited 07-28-2000).]

[Fionn]

"He has at times been a target for hammerheads "

It has also, unfortunately, made me more likely to be wary and mis-interpret borderline posts as attacks. And that isn't helped by the kind of taunting Lewis loves to partake in. Sometimes it makes me a bit fast off the trigger and I don't like that anymore than anyone else does BUT if you had idiots taking potshots at you you'd be on a hair-trigger too.

Elvis,

I've said before that I'll answer any factual question privately. Often I am unwilling to do so on the forum however since then we get into the realm of sources and research and various people descend and begin calling me names etc. It simply isn't worth it for me to answer these questions publicly anymore BUT if you have a question I don't want to answer publicly I'll always answer it privately. ( Just so you know).

And lastly, a quote from Mark IV "I've had those thoughts from time to time, but there are idiots that need representation...."

*Chuckle*>. Aww, now THAT made me laugh hard . Good one.

[This message has been edited by Fionn (edited 07-28-2000).]

[Lorak]

Well Mark IV,

As a self proclaimed idiot, at least now I know where to turn for council.

Lorak

------------------

"someone you trust is one of us"..........the illuminati

*

http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/combatmissionclub

Lorak's FTX for CM <--Proud member of the Combat Mission Webring

[:USERNAME:]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Flipper:

If your gonna leave could you at least say who or what is bugging you I hate it when i'm

wondering what it was, man this is like tearing the last page of a book out, flame the....

person's or person who's got you bothered!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah its wierd and a little rude I thought. Like some little tantrum. Cant be in my army is what I say.

Lewis

[Seanachai]

There are people who could leave this board tomorrow, and the only effect it would have on me would be to lower my blood pressure. Others' departure would leave me depressed. Some I would like to actively drive away, but I know that would be wrong. So I merely try to politely point out to them that they are useless little gits, or I ignore them completely. I think there is a fair amount of misunderstanding on this board, because of the rather 'flat' nature of written communication between people who don't know each other well. I find this forum highly useful, entertaining, and informative. I'm saddened that anyone who's been here for some time would not. Even during my tenure, which is brief compared to many others, the board has changed. But I feel it likely that it will change again in the not to distant future. This board has gone past the days of 'the Faithful', the people who believed in the game when there was no game; the people who wanted to help define what that game would be. Now, the game is here. Many new arrivals clog the streets of Jerusalem (or Mecca, or er...well, Jerusalem again, in a different way, or your favourite holy city here). Some of them are fools, some of them are believers, some of them are troublemakers. A goodly few are probably pilgrims who's knowledge and belief will help keep the game alive and growing. But, by definition, none of them will be the people who were there when the whole thing began. For a while, we'll hear a lot of bickering in the streets of this little community, with new and enthusiastic brethren clamoring about their reception from the residents, and the early converts spitting dismissively while discussing the shortcomings of the newcomers. And things will shake out, and some will go, and some will stay, and the community will adjust. And then it will happen all again. I would hope that Kevin (who I don't know, but I've been reading his posts here for some time, and I feel, in my limited experience, is a valued member) will leave because he chooses to, and then, rested, might venture back and find the community one that he will again embrace. Right now, with the game an existing and palpable reality, faith and belief will be shouldered aside by 'participation'. The democratization of experience. But what will keep the game alive is the participation of those who enjoy it, believe in it, and participate to improve it. Not just those who come in with, 'hey, do you know what should actually be done with this game', or 'wow, this game would be really great if it was only completely redesigned to meet my personal expectation about x', but those who play and, in discussion with BTS and others who've been here for a long time, wonder how x, y or z might be done better. I have only been reading this board since April of this year, but I have gone back and read a ton of previous posts (by way of the dreaded search function, or because of specific postings by members), and I think this has been one of the most interesting forums I have ever encountered. And much has been made about some of the 'flames' here, especially the ongoing ones. When I first encountered them, they troubled me too (although I will point out they were very few, compared to some of the forums I've encountered). But the longer I've been here, the more I've sorted out who to accept, who to ignore, and had a quick laugh over people who came at each other with knives drawn, only to find after 15 or so posts, that they actually, at least kind of, agreed with each other. This can be a very prickly group (look, there is no way that a great wargame is going to be embraced by a group of relaxed, communal Quakers. Most of these demented swine have 'combat' tatooed across their knuckles.) But there will always be a hard corps of people who play the game, and will keep the forum on the path. But some of them might get a little tired in the process, and some might have to take a break. Many will be back. It is only the dead that we will not meet again. Gods, I'm tired tonight, and rambling like some kind of tent preacher...

In the immortal words of Pogo:

Don't take Life too seriously, son...you ain't no how going to get out of it alive...

------------------

After witnessing exceptional bravery from his Celtic mercenaries, Alexander the Great called them to him and asked if there was anything they feared. They told him nothing, except that the sky might fall on their heads.

[This message has been edited by Seanachai (edited 07-29-2000).]