Xavier Posted January 14, 2000 Share Posted January 14, 2000 I Know codes for CM are may be fixed now but I think buildings aren't enough strong.Less than six 75mm rounds for the small ones and less than 12 rounds for the bigger ones are sufficient to collapse the buildind (and to do major damage to inside units...) So it's easy when you have tanks to level a village without any risk. When playing CE by instance I consider myself that buildings (even the church) are deadful place for infantry units. According to me it is not looking historicaly correct. Towns or village in Europe were levelled only because of heavy bombardment (like Caen or Le Havre)... I would prefer, for the future versions of CM, less fragile buildings and a random destruction. Anyway, BTS really made a fantastic product... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Tom Posted January 14, 2000 Share Posted January 14, 2000 Well, I am not too sure that buildings aren't resembled properly. They were only designed to keep out the elements, not High Explosive shells... if 6 75mm HE Shells shot through the walls of my house, I am pretty sure it wouldn't be standing pretty well. And my house is a 1 level brick thing built in the 1950's, let alone structures built in the early 20th and late 19th century as you would find littered all over Europe. Houses are dangerous things to hide in during warfare. One, they are a great target for enemy artillery, and two, they tend to collapse on those inside when they fall apart. There was a post much earlier dealing with this subject, use the search command to find better answers than the ones I gave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill Wilder Posted January 14, 2000 Share Posted January 14, 2000 My own experience in design and testing scenarios is that the buildings do reflect endurance pretty accurately. In the Arnhem scenario, one building near the bridge took an incessant pounding by artillery and Stu42 Assault guns for hours. It was a large stone building and it finally collapsed, but it took a LOT of pounding to do it. Remember, you may not have seen all the building types as yet (G).... ------------------ Wild Bill Wild Bill's Raiders Director of Scenario Design, The Gamers Net billw@thegamers.net http://wbr.thegamers.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Madmatt Posted January 14, 2000 Share Posted January 14, 2000 Perhaps someone can correct me if I am wrong but I think there is also alot of randomness applied to damage inflicted upon a building . I think that CM tracks the blast damage caused by weapons to buildings in much the same way as it does against vehicles. Just because you see 6 rounds impact into the side of the building doesn't mean they did so in the same way. One round may have penetrated through a window and then exploded in a room with a non-load bearing wall and therefore cause relatively limited structural interity damage while another shell may have exploded on an outside wall and weakened the foundation and overall support structure. This would be modeled by each round doing a different amount of damage against the buildings total structural strength. I have never noticed that a set amount of rounds cause buildings to collapse. I have seen stone buildings in Last Defense and Riesberg take litteraly dozens of impacts and stand firm yet other times it would collapse after 2! BTS has stated that in the future they would like to apply greater detail to the 'graphic depiction' of building damage but I think the behind the scenes modeling is dead on. Madmatt out... ------------------ If it's in Combat Mission, it's on Combat Mission HQ! combathq.thegamers.net [This message has been edited by Madmatt (edited 01-14-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted January 14, 2000 Share Posted January 14, 2000 Everybody is right on the mark. Six 75mm rounds certainly, if they all hit to more or less the same degree, would be plenty to take out a house. In reality there would likely be something left standing, like a part of one or two walls, but CM lacks that degree of detail at the moment. Like Matt said, we intend to enhance the treatment of buildings in future versions. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulR Posted January 14, 2000 Share Posted January 14, 2000 I can tell you that the house I'm living in would crumble at the sound of the tank! No rounds would be necessary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted January 14, 2000 Share Posted January 14, 2000 Some of the houses (hundreds of years old) I have seen in the Normandy would fall apart at the sight of a tank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkEzra Posted January 14, 2000 Share Posted January 14, 2000 The CE church...I've attacked that church w/multiple 75mm and bazooka rounds (hey why not the Stuggs were dead!)with little damage and no collapse. I have attacked that church with a 75mm and after a few rounds it crumbled into black dust! Seems right to me. If the troops inside don't suffer morale and casualty losses than I'ld say the game is off...but of course that is not the case. An Interesting side note. The Wooden two story Bldg caoght fire after my stugg took out a sherman next to it. Very Cool! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gunnerdream Posted January 15, 2000 Share Posted January 15, 2000 I recall a recent game of Last Defence against my brother wherein with the very first salvo, one single 81mm shell landed on one of the two story buildings he was hiding in and completely rubbled it AND set it on fire to boot!(Not to mention wasting his squad, which he is probably still fuming about). Talk about a critical hit! I Love This Game! Gunnerdream...floating down through the clouds... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill Wilder Posted January 15, 2000 Share Posted January 15, 2000 Oh, but they do, MCHoodle (Mark)! Believe me they do. When the Germans leveled that building in Arnhem, I lost two squads completely and the rest ranged from shaken to panic. The results I've seen seem to mirror the disaster of a house falling on you (G)! ------------------ Wild Bill Wild Bill's Raiders Director of Scenario Design, The Gamers Net billw@thegamers.net http://wbr.thegamers.net [This message has been edited by Wild Bill Wilder (edited 01-14-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted January 15, 2000 Share Posted January 15, 2000 There is a bug in the Beta Demo that acts like a "critical hit" for buildings. I forget who found it, but it was something like one 105mm round taking out 3 or 4 buildings in one shot! Kinda made us suspect foul play, and indeed... a little bugger was in there gunking up all our hard work Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikeathome Posted January 15, 2000 Share Posted January 15, 2000 I too wonder aboout building damage. You often see photos or newsreel of bombed out cities from WW2 which have plenty of houses & factories with walls left standing. Presumably many of them are burned out instead of having taken direct hits, but photos of V-2 and V-1 hits in England invariably have the buildings at the edge of the crater still standing to some degree or other. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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