A minor realism complaint - not sure it can be solved though

[PacifistButLikeWarGames]

One thing that feels slightly unreal to me is when a unit is advanced, it goes out of contact and then encounters an enemy unit.

The player then becomes aware that an enemy unit is in a particular location and can adjust plans accordingly, even though by rights the only ones who should know that the enemy unit is there is the out of contact friendly unit.

Can anyone think what the consequences would be if enemy units spotted by out of contact friendly units did not become identified to the player until contact was re-established?

[HankWWIIOnline]

That's a good point. The thing is, the out of contact unit will still react to the unit that is unseen by you, so either way you'll know somethings over there, just not exactly what. Like you said, it seems to be a minor realism slip.

[PacifistButLikeWarGames]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HankWWIIOnline:

That's a good point. The thing is, the out of contact unit will still react to the unit that is unseen by you, so either way you'll know somethings over there <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yup, you're right.

To solve that problem, it would have to be that out of contact units became invisible to the player.

I wonder what that would be like?

[This message has been edited by PacifistButLikeWarGames (edited 08-02-2000).]

[This message has been edited by PacifistButLikeWarGames (edited 08-02-2000).]

[Wayne]

If you mean by "out of contact", that squads beyond HQ control can't communicate with other units, I don't think that is the case. It's just that communication takes a little longer. That is why a squad beyond HQ radius takes longer to carry out orders.

I've seen this discussed before so you might want to do a search, but I remember that doing what you suggested would be too difficult in the programing.

However, I've noticed that you can lose contact with enemy units and they turn into generic icons such as stars or crosses etc.

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Blessed be the Lord my strength who teaches my hands to war and my fingers to fight.

[Guest Michael emrys]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Wayne:

I've noticed that you can lose contact with enemy units and they turn into generic icons such as stars or crosses etc.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And those icons only mark the location of the last *sighting*. The actual unit may have slipped away and be somewhere else.

Michael

[PacifistButLikeWarGames]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Michael emrys:

And those icons only mark the location of the last *sighting*. The actual unit may have slipped away and be somewhere else.

Michael<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah.

I suppose what I'm thinking of is the same thing happening with friendly units.

At the point that it goes out of command, it leaves a static icon until it comes back into command.

[Darwin]

There is a point where gameplay and realism conflict and this is one of them.

As realism icreases here gameplay goes down with the exteeme being the game as a topo map with simulated runners and radio messages.

Sure it could be tweaked either way but I think the the game does a good job of it. As it is now even though I, the player, know there is an enemy tank across the ridge my shermans on the field are as yet unaware of it until they get LOS. It works

[PacifistButLikeWarGames]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Darwin:

There is a point where gameplay and realism conflict and this is one of them.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You are probably right. And I am in awe at how much I enjoy CM just the way it is.

However, I would like to try the "total FOW" style just to see what it was like.

I have tried the level-1 only thing a couple of times.

Got my a$$ handed to me!

[This message has been edited by PacifistButLikeWarGames (edited 08-02-2000).]

[Pak40]

A unit that draws a black line to it's HQ is not "out of contact" - it only suffers command delay penalties and doesn't benefit from the HQ bonuses.

Also, you can look at it in this perspective: The unit that you advanced ahead of your main force is primarily a recon unit. Most recon units would have a radio of some sort, at least on the US side.

[Maximus]

Yes this whole thing was discussed a couple of months ago. It also included doing a FOW map where the map would change dramatically. The question was brought up like "Should we be able to know exactly where every dip in the terrain is and where every tree is?" Well, things were being talked about as to placing a black "shroud" over the map until proper recon was done. But in CM's scale, it is assumed that recon was done prior to battle and that the commanders already had a general map of the area.

Actually having a black shroud over any RTS game or what have you is simply unrealistic anyway. Look at empire building games. Like the Roman Empire didn't know that there was a mountain just 5 miles away.

To have your own units disappear if "out of contact" is very unrealistic also. You mean, those troops don't know where they are?

Darwin is right. There comes a timet where gameplay and realsim comes to a point in which one or the other destroys the other. That is in fact why these are called games and not real-life or simulations.

The fact is that BTS did a very good job in depicting FOW while maintaining excellent gameplay.

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Be sure and check out my texture mods on CMHQ.

Dave "Ol' Blood & Maximus Butticus" Molinarolo

[Dirtweasle]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Darwin:

There is a point where gameplay and realism conflict and this is one of them.

As realism icreases here gameplay goes down with the exteeme being the game as a topo map with simulated runners and radio messages.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There was a game exactly like that, though the name escapes me.